Debian Bug report logs - #900928
ITP: fractal -- desktop IM client for the Matrix protocol

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: nodiscc <nodiscc@gmail.com>

To: submit@bugs.debian.org

Subject: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 22:52:38 +0200

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

* Package name    : fractal
* Version         : 0.1.30
* Upstream Author : Daniel Garcia Moreno
* URL             : https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/fractal
* License         : gplv3
* Programming Lang: Rust
* Description     : Matrix group messaging app

https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Fractal

Fractal is a Matrix messaging app for GNOME written in Rust. Its
interface is optimized for collaboration in large groups, such as free
software projects.

Message #40 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Andrej Shadura <andrewsh@debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 10:51:22 -0400

Hi!

Is there any progress on the packaging of fractal in Debian? Any
blockers or missing crates?

Thanks!

-- 
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love. Love is not music.
Music is the best.      - Frank Zappa

Message #45 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org, Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

Cc: Andrej Shadura <andrewsh@debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 12:23:07 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Control: owner -1 !

@Andrej: I took your silence to mean that you stopped working on this - 
feel free to take back this ITP if I am mistaken.

Quoting Antoine Beaupré (2022-03-17 15:51:22)
> Is there any progress on the packaging of fractal in Debian? Any 
> blockers or missing crates?

I have now put together a draft source package, tracked at 
https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal

It compiles, also in an non-networked build environment if first 
fetching 428 Rust crates (see debian/README.source).

Build takes ~40 minutes on my local amd64 system.

The built executable segfaults, however:

> $ LANG=C fractal
> 
> (fractal:354481): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: 12:02:22.755: Settings schema 'org.gnome.Fractal' does not contain a key named 'markdown-active'
> Sporings-/stoppunkts-fælde (smed kerne)

That last message oddly ignores the LANG variable - it says something 
like "Tracing/stoppoint trap (threw core)" which I guess essentially 
means a segfault.

My plan is to continue refine this package until suitable for release 
into Debian, and then maintain it in the Matrix team.

@Antoine (and others reading along): You are quite welcome to help.  If 
you want to help test, then please tell if you want me to provide 
pre-built binaries (when no longer segfaulting I expect to compile for 
amd64 and arm64 for my own use, and can share those more widely if there 
is interest).


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #52 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

To: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>, 900928@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Andrej Shadura <andrewsh@debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:07:03 -0400

On 2022-04-12 12:23:07, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

[...]

> @Antoine (and others reading along): You are quite welcome to help.  If 
> you want to help test, then please tell if you want me to provide 
> pre-built binaries (when no longer segfaulting I expect to compile for 
> amd64 and arm64 for my own use, and can share those more widely if there 
> is interest).

I'd be happy to do some testing, thanks for taking this on!

-- 
If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution.
                        - Emma Goldman

Message #57 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org, Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 15:38:46 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

[ dropping Andrej from cc ]

Quoting Antoine Beaupré (2022-04-12 15:07:03)
> On 2022-04-12 12:23:07, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > @Antoine (and others reading along): You are quite welcome to help.  
> > If you want to help test, then please tell if you want me to provide 
> > pre-built binaries (when no longer segfaulting I expect to compile 
> > for amd64 and arm64 for my own use, and can share those more widely 
> > if there is interest).
> 
> I'd be happy to do some testing, thanks for taking this on!

Great!

The segfault can apparently be avoided by removing 
/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/org.gnome.Fractal.gschema.xml and then 
running "glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas".

I can now log in, and Fratal begins indexing data (I can hear 
matrix-synapse churning at my self-hosted non-SSD server few meters from 
me), but when done it presents no rooms, and in terminal it spewed this:

> Error: Can't store the password using libsecret
> Error: Can't store the token using libsecret

If you want to compile on your own, then try if you get as far as me - 
or further if you happen to be running GNOME, which I suspect might 
provide a smoother ride than my sway environment.

If you want to try packages I build, then say so and I can arrange to 
put them online.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #62 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 18:38:33 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Needs embedding 370 crates (16 from git snapshot); Builds in ~40 
minutes; Runs but has issues with glib schema file and libsecret

Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2022-04-12 12:23:07)
> It compiles, also in an non-networked build environment if first 
> fetching 428 Rust crates (see debian/README.source).

Now reduced to needing 370 crates embedded.  A few more should be 
possible to replace with system crates, but a large part is either not 
yet packaged at all or needs upgrading to link with gtk4.

As mentioned in previous posts, on my (non-GNOME) environment it 
segfaults unless I remove 
/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/org.gnome.Fractal.gschema.xml, and then it 
logs in but then apparently disconnects again whe it cannot store 
credentials.  Maybe those two issues are connected, and maybe they 
disappear on a GNOME desktop (i.e. are a matter of depending on and 
loading proper desktop daemons): Help needed to investigate that.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #69 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Andrej Shadura" <andrewsh@debian.org>

To: "Jonas Smedegaard" <jonas@jones.dk>, 900928@bugs.debian.org, Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 19:02:11 +0200

Hi,

On Tue, 12 Apr 2022, at 12:23, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Control: owner -1 !
>
> @Andrej: I took your silence to mean that you stopped working on this - 
> feel free to take back this ITP if I am mistaken.

Yeah, I've been quite busy lately and I was unable to work on this package. Sorry for not replying, I didn’t have time back then and then I forgot 🙂

> Quoting Antoine Beaupré (2022-03-17 15:51:22)
>> Is there any progress on the packaging of fractal in Debian? Any 
>> blockers or missing crates?
>
> I have now put together a draft source package, tracked at 
> https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal
>
> It compiles, also in an non-networked build environment if first 
> fetching 428 Rust crates (see debian/README.source).
>
> Build takes ~40 minutes on my local amd64 system.
>
> The built executable segfaults, however:
>
>> $ LANG=C fractal
>> 
>> (fractal:354481): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: 12:02:22.755: Settings schema 'org.gnome.Fractal' does not contain a key named 'markdown-active'
>> Sporings-/stoppunkts-fælde (smed kerne)
>
> That last message oddly ignores the LANG variable - it says something 
> like "Tracing/stoppoint trap (threw core)" which I guess essentially 
> means a segfault.
>
> My plan is to continue refine this package until suitable for release 
> into Debian, and then maintain it in the Matrix team.

It would be great if you could get the Rust team involved, as the majority of the dependencies should go in there. I started packaging dependencies for the non-next-Fractal back in the day, but the crypto stuff (for secret-service) was taking ages to get through NEW, which is why I gave up at some point.

-- 
Cheers,
  Andrej

Message #74 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org, Andrej Shadura <andrewsh@debian.org>, Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:25:41 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Andrej,

Quoting Andrej Shadura (2022-04-12 19:02:11)
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022, at 12:23, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > @Andrej: I took your silence to mean that you stopped working on 
> > this - feel free to take back this ITP if I am mistaken.
> 
> Yeah, I've been quite busy lately and I was unable to work on this 
> package. Sorry for not replying, I didn’t have time back then and then 
> I forgot 🙂

Good to hear from you - and enjoy those other things keeping you busy!
:-)


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #85 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org, Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:08:09 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Needs embedding 247 crates (16 from git snapshot); Builds in ~40 
minutes; Runs but has issues with glib schema file and libsecret

Upstream code now requires a new library not in Debian and not easily 
embedded (not a Rust crate), so my plan to continuously update to 
upstream HEAD is currently stalled.

So I suspect I will now mostly wait for upstream to stabilize and wait 
for the Rust team to bugfix and upgrade existing libraries already in 
Debian.

You can help by testing this draft package (either build it yourself or 
tell if you want me to provide you a binary package) and provide 
feedback on how well it works in your desktop environment.

You can also help by joining the Rust team in Debian and help unbreak 
and upgrade packaged crates, and add more: 
https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/blob/debian/latest/debian/TODO


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #92 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 17:40:29 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

5.0.0~~git20220412-0.0 draft 4 needs embedding 234 crates (108 missing, 
87 outdated, 14 ahead, 1 broken, 16 unreleased); runs but has issues 
with glib schema file and libsecret

Thanks especially to Peter Michael Green in the Rust team fixing a slew 
of fatal bugs in dependencies, the amount of embedded crates are now 
reduced to 234.

My plan is still to mainly wait for upstream to stabilize their 
codebase, and to wait for Rust team to update/upgrade more crate 
packages.

You can help by testing this draft package (either build it yourself or 
tell if you want me to provide you a binary package) and provide 
feedback on how well it works in your desktop environment.

You can also help by joining the Rust team in Debian and help unbreak 
and upgrade packaged crates, and add more: 
https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/blob/debian/latest/debian/TODO


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #103 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 13:45:19 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

5.0.0~~git20220412-0.0 draft 5 needs embedding 230 crates (108 missing,
9 broken, 83 outdated, 14 ahead, 16 unreleased); apparently works fine
when gnome-keyring is installed.

Until now I had accidentally tested an old custom-installed binary, so
possibly this is true even for older draft releases as well:  The issue
with glib schema is gone, and when package gnome-keyring is installed
Fractal succesfully logs into my self-hosted Matrix instance.

My plan is still to mainly wait for upstream to stabilize their 
codebase, and to wait for Rust team to update/upgrade more crate 
packages.

Now is a good time for you to help test this draft package (either build
it yourself or tell if you want me to provide you a binary package) and
provide feedback on how well it works in your desktop environment.

You can also help by joining the Rust team in Debian and help unbreak 
and upgrade packaged crates, and add more: 
https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/blob/debian/latest/debian/TODO


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #114 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:18:34 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

5.0.0~~git20221105 draft 5 needs embedding 140 crates (73 missing, 3 broken, 49 outdated, 15 ahead); works fine.

Main tasks now are to keep package up-to-date with upstream releases, and wait for Rust team to upgrade GTK and GStreamer crates.

Here's how you can help:

As user running Debian, you can test this draft package: Either build it yourself from source or tell (by posting to this bugreport) if you prefer testing the binary packages I built - then I will share those.

As developer (but no need to be official member of Debian!), you can join the Debian Rust team and help package these missing crates: https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/blob/debian/latest/debian/TODO


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #123 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#900928: RFP: fractal -- Matrix group messaging app

Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 11:55:59 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

5.0.0~~git20221105 draft 5 needs embedding 140 crates (73 missing, 3 broken, 49 outdated, 15 ahead); works fine; newer code requires rustc 1.63.

Main task now is to wait for Rust team to upgrade rustc: GIO/GLIB crates v0.16 and GStreamer crates v0.19 require rustc 1.63.

Here's how you can help:

As user running Debian, you can test this draft package: Either build it yourself from source or tell (by posting to this bugreport) if you prefer testing the binary packages I built - then I will share those.

As developer (but no need to be official member of Debian!), you can join the Debian Rust team and help package these missing crates: https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/blob/debian/latest/debian/TODO


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #130 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de

To: 900928 <900928@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: RE: RFP fractal

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 20:10:55 +0100 (CET)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

 The two big chunks still missing for fractal are the matrix-sdk crate and all GTK and gstreamer related crates. 
I started working on the matrix sdk tree, but it has  a lot (!) of reverse and missing dependencies. The GTK and gstreamer crates can't be packaged because of #1017905 (#970059 which is needed for fractal is also affected). I started working on that, too. ftpmasters still haven't exactly told me how to properly ship the affected crates. (imho this isn't needed at all, but I digress). The remaining dependencies are somewhat trivial like comrak or oo7. I will continue working on packaging the missing crates, but it could prove difficult if #1017905 can't be resolved.

Cheers

Matthias Geiger (werdahias)

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Message #135 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: RE: RFP fractal

Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2022 20:36:01 +0100 (CET)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

did myself a favour and made a table illustrating the missing crates:

+────────────────────────────+──────────+───────────────────────+──────────────────+────────+
| ruma                       |          |                       |                  |        |
+────────────────────────────+──────────+───────────────────────+──────────────────+────────+
| depends on                 |          |                       |                  |        |
| ruma-appservice-api        |          |                       |                  |        |
| ruma-state-res             | depends  | ruma-common           |                  |        |
| ruma-signatures            | depends  | ruma-common           | ed25519-dalek    | pkcs8  |
| ruma-push-gateway-api      | depends  | ruma-common           |                  |        |
| ruma-identity-service-api  | depends  | ruma-common           |                  |        |
| ruma-federation-api        | depends  | ruma-common           |                  |        |
| ruma-client                | depends  | ruma-common           | ruma-client-api  |        |
| ruma-client-api            | depends  | ruma-common           |                  |        |
| ruma-common                | depends  | js_option             |                  |        |
|                            |          |                       |                  |        |
|                            |          |                       |                  |        |
| matrix-sdk-common          |          |                       |                  |        |
| depends on                 |          |                       |                  |        |
| ruma                       |          |                       |                  |        |
| wasm-timer                 | depends  | wasm-bindgen-futures  |                  |        |
| (optional)                 |          |                       |                  |        |
| wasm-bindgen-futures       |
+────────────────────────────+

This is just the ruma stuff. The further up you go into the dependency jungle the messier it gets.
Once js_option is sponsored (I already packaged it) I can work on the ruma mess since I already packaged some other ruma crates.

Cheers

werdahias

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Message #142 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de

To: 900928 <900928@bugs.debian.org>

Cc: Dr <dr@jones.dk>

Subject: Re: deps

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:26:41 +0100 (CET)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I packaged all gtk releated deps on my local branch (except ashpd and oo7). This is a huge chunk out of the missing crates.
comrak is apparently not needed anymore for fractal. this leaves some minor crates and matrix-sdk/ruma .
I will continue to work towards the remaining deps. 

CC jonas: I strongly suggest maintaining fractal within the GNOME team since it's a Circle App.

regards,
---
Matthias Geiger (werdahias)

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Message #147 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de

To: 900928 <900928@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: RE: deps

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 14:57:41 +0200 (CEST)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Jonas,



> Is your work available publicly somewhere?
>
Yes. The matrix-sdk depends mainly on ruma which is 80% packaged in the debcargo-conf repo.
The GTK-rs update is visible here: https://salsa.debian.org/rust-team/debcargo-conf/-/merge_requests/463 and most of the *debs are here: https://salsa.debian.org/werdahias/obfuscate-wip/-/tree/debs?ref_type=heads 

Stuff still missing: ashpd, oo7 and matrix-sdk. The former two are GTK related and I will package them as soon as the GTK update gets uploaded because I need them anyway. the latter needs ruma which I have constantly been working on.
comrak isn't needed anymore apparently.

wrt maintaining: I thought all GNOME circle apps should be also maintained within the GNOME team, maybe even in a separate workspace, but that is just my opinion (especially since I maintain three of those programs that way). You're free to maintain it however you see fit, I didn't want to impose.

Regarding the "credit": also maybe came off wrong. My POV: I made a list of all the fractal deps and slowly started working those off. I put in a lot of effort to get the GTK-rs update underway and the rest of the fractal stuff like ruma. I guess that resulted in me thinking "Well, I do want some of the credit for working on fractal!" And I think while that may seem selfish I still deserve that as I put in constant work towaord the goal of packaging fractal. It's not my intention to come off that way but I think you get my point.

Honestly: Feel free to do whatever you think best for debian. The GTK stack will land in trixie and then it's straightforward to finish packaging. Please don't interfere with a) the gtk stack and b) the rest of the ruma stack,
I kinda don't care about the rest. (not trying to start a side discussion which rust packaging is better; if I have an overview for both stacks that makes things easier)

Sorry for a bit of an rant and the wall of text,

I hope this clears things up.

regards,

---
Matthias Geiger (werdahias)

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Message #152 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928 <900928@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: deps

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 17:36:50 +0200

Hi Matthias,

[quoting previous private post to help establish context]

Quoting matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de (2023-03-14 11:39:30)
> I wanted to discuss fractal. I also have a somewhat related interest to it. I have been constantly working on it. My wip-gtk branch covers most of its missing dependencies, so the big chunks missing are the matrix sdk and comrak. I have been constantly working on those, too. I'd like fractal to be maintained within the GNOME team since 1) it uses the GTK stack and 2) is also a circle app. Since I also put in some effort I also would like to be included as uploader. I think this is fair since now 80% of the dependencies are covered.

Quoting matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de (2023-04-13 14:57:41)
> > Is your work available publicly somewhere?
> >
> Yes. The matrix-sdk depends mainly on ruma which is 80% packaged in the debcargo-conf repo.
> The GTK-rs update is visible here: https://salsa.debian.org/rust-team/debcargo-conf/-/merge_requests/463 and most of the *debs are here: https://salsa.debian.org/werdahias/obfuscate-wip/-/tree/debs?ref_type=heads 
> 
> Stuff still missing: ashpd, oo7 and matrix-sdk. The former two are GTK related and I will package them as soon as the GTK update gets uploaded because I need them anyway. the latter needs ruma which I have constantly been working on.
> comrak isn't needed anymore apparently.

Ah, makes sense now.  I thought you meant that you mean a wip-gtk branch
of the fractal packaging - i.e. this git repo:
https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal

I appreciate your work on getting dependent Rust crates packaged for
Debian.

Personally I dislike the all-crates-in-one-git approach practiced in the
Rust team, and since the team has made it a "must" to do so within the
team I am not in that team at all.

Please consider using the Debian bugtracker to communicate "intents to
package" by filing an ITP bugreport for each single upstream project
that you work on packaging for Debian.  That enables us to keep track of
efforts targeted but not yet included formally into Debian - i.e. the
very purpose of that class of bugreports in the Debian bugtracker.

> wrt maintaining: I thought all GNOME circle apps should be also maintained within the GNOME team, maybe even in a separate workspace, but that is just my opinion (especially since I maintain three of those programs that way). You're free to maintain it however you see fit, I didn't want to impose.

There are benefits of streamlining packaging within a team, but there
are also drawbacks of "optimizations" done within single teams.  There
is a real risk that packages may bitrot when maintained by a team with a
too large focus, as single packages at the edge of their focus may not
get adequate attention.

Obviously a package may lack attention *anywhere - we do not magically
get more hands by splitting the task into more smaller buckets.  But in
a smaller team mistreated packages has arguably a higher chance of
getting noticed - either by the team itself or by fellow Debian devopers
outside of the team or by users.

I mean, the task list for the security team is several pages long:
https://udd.debian.org/dmd/?team%2Bpkg-security%40tracker.debian.org#todo

...but that pales in comparison with the task list for the python team:
https://udd.debian.org/dmd.cgi?email1=team%2Bpython%40tracker.debian.org

There is no single obvious way to group packaging efforts.

Some teams streamline for one build systems (e.g. Rust team).  Some
teams streamline for one programming language, across build systems
(e.g. Perl, Java, and Python teams).  Some teams streamline for one
widget toolkit use, across languages (e.g. the GNOME team).  Some teams
streamline for one desktop environment, across widget toolkits (e.g.
LXQT team)

Most packaging teams at https://wiki.debian.org/Teams, however, have a
scope of concrete tools or a smaller collection of interrelated tools.

The GNOME team likely has a team policy that optimized towards projects
closely related to the GNOME core infrastructure, at the expense of
packages more loosely related to that.  That does not mean that all
projects close to GNOME is better off maintained by that team, only that
maintenance of the projects there benefits from that optimization - but
the backside is that maintainers are then expected to align with the
policy.

I don't use the GNOME desktop myself, and do not maintain a range of
packages tightly related to GNOME, so for me it would be more a burden
to engage in yet another team with maybe-peculiar-to-me policies.

> Regarding the "credit": also maybe came off wrong. My POV: I made a list of all the fractal deps and slowly started working those off. I put in a lot of effort to get the GTK-rs update underway and the rest of the fractal stuff like ruma. I guess that resulted in me thinking "Well, I do want some of the credit for working on fractal!" And I think while that may seem selfish I still deserve that as I put in constant work towaord the goal of packaging fractal. It's not my intention to come off that way but I think you get my point.

I totally get that.

It pains me that when I ask about your work, you point me to what I
perceive as a teamwork with little visibility of your efforts in it.

In a parallel universe, you would have posted to this ITP each and every
time you initiated the packaging of a dependency, exactly because you
initiated it with Fractal in mind.  Then your work would have gained
visibility for anyone looking for progress on the Fractal packaging,
including me who have been attacking the challenge from the other end.

Personally I suspect that some of the pain you have gone through in
getting those packages in shape is due to the Rust team "streamlining",
and I fear that the current blocker of bug#1017905 is a sign of that.

> Honestly: Feel free to do whatever you think best for debian. The GTK stack will land in trixie and then it's straightforward to finish packaging. Please don't interfere with a) the gtk stack and b) the rest of the ruma stack,
> I kinda don't care about the rest. (not trying to start a side discussion which rust packaging is better; if I have an overview for both stacks that makes things easier)

What I think is best for Debian is that we collaborate more in Debian.

In Debian as a whole, not (only) within teams.

I dislike several things in the Rust team, and I suspect that
bug#1017905 exists because of the Rust team insisting that Debian
packaging should mimic upstream distribution design.  That bug is about
a project packaged by redistributing pregenerated files, instead of what
is supposed to be the core rule in Debian: Packaging the preferred form
for editing.

You apparently work in the Rust team.  If it works for you, then great -
I am not saying you should leave.  But I am saying that I am torn
between wanting to collaborate and then having strong opinions myself
that arguably hinders collaboration.

I was preparing packaging of Ruma, but then saw a single package related
to that trickle into Debian, and I gave up on it: I would have packaged
a *collection* of packages together, because that is clearly how
upstream "preferred form for editing is for that codebase.  But that
conflicts with the Rust team style of packaging.  *SIGH*

I think a good step towards a better overview is to file ITPs.  Also for
library-only crates, not only for applications.

> Sorry for a bit of an rant and the wall of text,

Thanks a lot for all that you wrote, and thanks for your work on
packaging crates.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

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Message #157 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de

To: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>, 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: deps

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 18:04:54 +0200 (CEST)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

13. Apr. 2023, 17:39 von jonas@jones.dk:

>
> I appreciate your work on getting dependent Rust crates packaged for
> Debian.
>
thanks.

> Personally I dislike the all-crates-in-one-git approach practiced in the
> Rust team, and since the team has made it a "must" to do so within the
> team I am not in that team at all.
>
that's what I hoped to avoid.

> Please consider using the Debian bugtracker to communicate "intents to
> package" by filing an ITP bugreport for each single upstream project
> that you work on packaging for Debian.  
>
I won't do that for the rust crates (except binary ones) since that is the Rust Teams' policy. You choose not to do so. While I agree that a big monorepo  is not ideal the updating process is way more streamlined and that much crates can't all be maintained each in a seperate repo. That'd be madness.

>
> I don't use the GNOME desktop myself, and do not maintain a range of
> packages tightly related to GNOME, so for me it would be more a burden
> to engage in yet another team with maybe-peculiar-to-me policies.
>
they use a pretty standardized workflow (DEP 14). just a thought. 

> I totally get that.
>
> It pains me that when I ask about your work, you point me to what I
> perceive as a teamwork with little visibility of your efforts in it.
>
well it's always teamwork I guess;  I can claim the GTK update as my efforts. 

> Personally I suspect that some of the pain you have gone through in
> getting those packages in shape is due to the Rust team "streamlining",
> and I fear that the current blocker of bug#1017905 is a sign of that.
>
No. This is (while indirectly caused by me) not an issue imo, rather ftpmasters insisting the GTK-rs code generator needs to be shipped. (Note that this was fine before for some time) See the linked thread on the bug.


> What I think is best for Debian is that we collaborate more in Debian.
>
Agreed.

>
> In Debian as a whole, not (only) within teams.
>
> I dislike several things in the Rust team, and I suspect that
> bug#1017905 exists because of the Rust team insisting that Debian
> packaging should mimic upstream distribution design.  
>
See above.

> You apparently work in the Rust team.  If it works for you, then great -
> I am not saying you should leave.  But I am saying that I am torn
> between wanting to collaborate and then having strong opinions myself
> that arguably hinders collaboration.
>
I will maintain the GTK stack within the rust team as ITP some more GTK-rs stuff. fwiw I continuously commented my progress here and in the debcargo-confs' TODO file.

Regards,
Matthias Geiger

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Message #162 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: deps

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 19:15:31 +0200

Quoting matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de (2023-04-13 18:04:54)
> 13. Apr. 2023, 17:39 von jonas@jones.dk:
> > Please consider using the Debian bugtracker to communicate "intents
> > to package" by filing an ITP bugreport for each single upstream
> > project that you work on packaging for Debian.  
> >
> I won't do that for the rust crates (except binary ones) since that is
> the Rust Teams' policy.
[...]
> I will maintain the GTK stack within the rust team as ITP some more
> GTK-rs stuff. fwiw I continuously commented my progress here and in
> the debcargo-confs' TODO file.

Ok, so your avoiding Debbugs to track ITPs is deliberate.

I shall try to remember that, to not waste more time for both of us.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

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Message #167 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de

To: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>, 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: deps

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 19:28:16 +0200 (CEST)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

13. Apr. 2023, 19:18 von jonas@jones.dk:

> Quoting matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de (2023-04-13 18:04:54)
>
>> 13. Apr. 2023, 17:39 von jonas@jones.dk:
>> > Please consider using the Debian bugtracker to communicate "intents
>> > to package" by filing an ITP bugreport for each single upstream
>> > project that you work on packaging for Debian. 
>> >
>> I won't do that for the rust crates (except binary ones) since that is
>> the Rust Teams' policy.
>>
> [...]
>
>> I will maintain the GTK stack within the rust team as ITP some more
>> GTK-rs stuff. fwiw I continuously commented my progress here and in
>> the debcargo-confs' TODO file.
>>
>
> Ok, so your avoiding Debbugs to track ITPs is deliberate.
>
No, I do use debugs to track ITPs  (like this one, see comments above on my progress).
No one except you uses it to track rust library crates because the policy of the rust team states that. And I think most maintainers have better use of their little time to file 20+ ITPs for rust crates. ftpmasters are also ok with that, so I really don't see the issue here. And updating stacks with 60+ crates like GTK is way easier if it all is in one repo. 

I hoped to avoid this can of worms exactly because of that.

regards,


---
Matthias Geiger (werdahias)

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Message #172 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: deps

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 20:59:51 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Quoting matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de (2023-04-13 19:28:16)
> 13. Apr. 2023, 19:18 von jonas@jones.dk:
> > Quoting matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de (2023-04-13 18:04:54)
> >> I won't do that for the rust crates (except binary ones) since that
> >> is the Rust Teams' policy.
> > [...]
> >> I will maintain the GTK stack within the rust team as ITP some more
> >> GTK-rs stuff. fwiw I continuously commented my progress here and in
> >> the debcargo-confs' TODO file.
> >>
> >
> > Ok, so your avoiding Debbugs to track ITPs is deliberate.
> >
> No, I do use debugs to track ITPs

I was referring to the packages you "have been constantly working on"
yet didn't appear in the header of this bug#900928.

> No one except you uses it to track rust library crates
[...]
> I really don't see the issue here.

Fine. I thought you saw an issue with recognition, and apologize for
having wasted your time with a collaboration practice that (according to
you) noone but me bothers doing.

Let's dial back to your original request before my ramblings:

Quoting matthias.geiger1024@tutanota.de (2023-03-14 11:39:30)
> I wanted to discuss fractal. [...] I have been constantly working on
> [deps]. [...] I have been constantly working on [more deps], too.
> [...] Since I also put in some effort I also would like to be included
> as uploader. I think this is fair since now 80% of the dependencies
> are covered.

When you work on, say, gtk+3.0, then you receive recognition for your
work in that package.  Not in e.g. gnome-control-center or firefox
despite both of those other packages depend on gtk+3.0 and thus benefit
from your contribution there.

Similarly, that you "have been constantly working on" a shitload of
dependencies for fractal does not grant uploader right/recognition
for fractal. Not because you are any lesser than me nor because of how I
choose to create packages nor because I am not member of the Rust team,
but because it would not be fair to do so.

I welcome collaboration. Both indirect ones like packaging of needed
dependencies, and direct ones like patches to packaging.

I shall gladly acknowledge contributions, fairly.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

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Message #177 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Matthias Geiger <werdahias@riseup.net>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Dependency update

Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2023 23:55:18 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

While the ruma-stack is still a lot of crates to go through NEW, all are 
prepared. Meanwhile I uploaded rust-libshumate and rust-libadwaita to 
unstable.

I will upload the rest of the ruma crates once the one in NEW has been 
accepted.

-- 
Matthias Geiger <werdahias>
Debian Maintainer
"Freiheit ist immer Freiheit des anders Denkenden" -- Rosa Luxemburg

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Message #182 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org, Matthias Geiger <werdahias@riseup.net>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: Dependency update

Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 06:36:00 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Quoting Matthias Geiger (2023-10-22 23:55:18)
> While the ruma-stack is still a lot of crates to go through NEW, all are 
> prepared. Meanwhile I uploaded rust-libshumate and rust-libadwaita to 
> unstable.

Yes, I noticed. Thanks!

> I will upload the rest of the ruma crates once the one in NEW has been 
> accepted.

Great!  Thanks for all your work in this,

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

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Message #187 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Matthias Geiger <werdahias@riseup.net>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org, js@debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: Dependency update

Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2023 11:34:28 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 06:36:00 +0200 Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> wrote:
> Quoting Matthias Geiger (2023-10-22 23:55:18)
> > While the ruma-stack is still a lot of crates to go through NEW, 
all are
> > prepared. Meanwhile I uploaded rust-libshumate and rust-libadwaita to
> > unstable.
>
> Yes, I noticed. Thanks!
>
> > I will upload the rest of the ruma crates once the one in NEW has been
> > accepted.
>
> Great! Thanks for all your work in this,
>
> - Jonas


Running cargo debstatus on the 5.x tree yields:

NEW packages that need packaging from scratch:


- html5gum

- rqrr

- html2pango

- htmlescape

-geo-uri

- djb_hash

- eyeball-im

Once the ruma stack is in debian I'll update it to the latest release; 
then packaging fractal should be trivial.

-- 
Matthias Geiger <werdahias>
Debian Maintainer
"Freiheit ist immer Freiheit des anders Denkenden" -- Rosa Luxemburg

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Message #198 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Schröder <Holgi.HSP@gmx.de>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Patches Fractal7 ?

Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 08:52:55 +0200

Are there already patches that work with Fractal7?

https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/fractal/-/tags


These no longer work with Fractal7. They still worked with 6.

https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/tree/debian/latest/debian/patches


/hsp

Message #203 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: Patches Fractal7 ?

Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 11:41:16 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Quoting Holger Schröder (2024-05-05 08:52:55)
> Are there already patches that work with Fractal7?
> 
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/fractal/-/tags
> 
> 
> These no longer work with Fractal7. They still worked with 6.
> 
> https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/tree/debian/latest/debian/patches

Fractal is written in aggressively modern rust.

Newest releases of Fractal requires a newer version of rustc than
packaged in Debian, and consequently those releases cannot be packaged
for Debian.

I have attempted to backport some code patterns to work with older
rustc, but I cannot keep up, and I find it extremely difficult to locate
online examples of backporting patterns, since more commonly the focus
is on modernizing rather than stabilizing.

Help patching code that fails to build with rustc in Debian (currently
1.70) is much welcome.  If anyone steps up to help with that but need
concrete code patterns that currently fail, please tell me, and I will
try extend by routines to identify and list such patterns (instead of
only noting such patterns locally as I do now since it is less effort).

Mvh. Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

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Message #208 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Schröder <Holgi.HSP@gmx.de>

To: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>, 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: Patches Fractal7 ?

Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 14:01:21 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Am 05.05.24 um 11:41 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:
> Quoting Holger Schröder (2024-05-05 08:52:55)
>> Are there already patches that work with Fractal7?
>>
>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/fractal/-/tags
>>
>>
>> These no longer work with Fractal7. They still worked with 6.
>>
>> https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/tree/debian/latest/debian/patches
> Fractal is written in aggressively modern rust.
>
> Newest releases of Fractal requires a newer version of rustc than
> packaged in Debian, and consequently those releases cannot be packaged
> for Debian.
>
> I have attempted to backport some code patterns to work with older
> rustc, but I cannot keep up, and I find it extremely difficult to locate
> online examples of backporting patterns, since more commonly the focus
> is on modernizing rather than stabilizing.
>
> Help patching code that fails to build with rustc in Debian (currently
> 1.70) is much welcome.  If anyone steps up to help with that but need
> concrete code patterns that currently fail, please tell me, and I will
> try extend by routines to identify and list such patterns (instead of
> only noting such patterns locally as I do now since it is less effort).
>
> Mvh. Jonas
>
Then I'll probably have to install the flatpac which I don't really
like... too bad

https://flathub.org/apps/org.gnome.Fractal

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Message #213 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: Patches Fractal7 ?

Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 14:51:08 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Quoting Holger Schröder (2024-05-05 14:01:21)
> Am 05.05.24 um 11:41 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:
> > Quoting Holger Schröder (2024-05-05 08:52:55)
> >> Are there already patches that work with Fractal7?
> >>
> >> https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/fractal/-/tags
> >>
> >>
> >> These no longer work with Fractal7. They still worked with 6.
> >>
> >> https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/fractal/-/tree/debian/latest/debian/patches
> > Fractal is written in aggressively modern rust.
> >
> > Newest releases of Fractal requires a newer version of rustc than
> > packaged in Debian, and consequently those releases cannot be packaged
> > for Debian.
> >
> > I have attempted to backport some code patterns to work with older
> > rustc, but I cannot keep up, and I find it extremely difficult to locate
> > online examples of backporting patterns, since more commonly the focus
> > is on modernizing rather than stabilizing.
> >
> > Help patching code that fails to build with rustc in Debian (currently
> > 1.70) is much welcome.  If anyone steps up to help with that but need
> > concrete code patterns that currently fail, please tell me, and I will
> > try extend by routines to identify and list such patterns (instead of
> > only noting such patterns locally as I do now since it is less effort).
> >
> Then I'll probably have to install the flatpac which I don't really
> like... too bad

No, you do not "have to", as there are other options:
https://wiki.debian.org/Matrix

You might "prefer", depending on various criteria, but those are
irrelevant here, so please refrain from further elaborating on your
reasons for concluding that in your view you "have to" do something.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

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Message #218 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: erebion <erebion@erebion.eu>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Holgi.HSP@gmx.de

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: Patches Fractal7 ?

Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 15:27:32 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 05.05.24 14:51, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>> Then I'll probably have to install the flatpac which I don't really
>> like... too bad
> No, you do not "have to", as there are other options:
> https://wiki.debian.org/Matrix
>
> You might "prefer", depending on various criteria, but those are
> irrelevant here, so please refrain from further elaborating on your
> reasons for concluding that in your view you "have to" do something.
>
>
>   - Jonas
>

Woah, why so aggressive?

What is wrong with saying something like "I will have to look for other 
ways of installing it, in order to use the software, as the method I was 
hoping for is not available"?

Yes, it might be irrelevant for you when people tell you that they 
cannot help, but I don't think that this is a very nice response to when 
someone politely says that they cannot help and will look for alternatives.
Not everyone is capable of solving every bug.

We all know that there's a lot of hard work required in packaging 
software, but that is not a good reason to get snappy.

I bet more people would work on free software if the communication was 
more polite. And I might as well argue that your unfriendly 'You might 
"prefer"' and telling someone that their polite response is "irrelevant 
here" might be in itself an irrelevant response, don't you think?

*rolls eyes*

Best Regards

-- 
erebion

Matrix: @erebion:erebion.eu

My languages: German, English, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish
Yes, I'm a language nerd. Feel free to write to me in any of the aforementioned languages.

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Message #223 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: Patches Fractal7 ?

Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 16:31:10 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Quoting erebion (2024-05-05 15:27:32)
> On 05.05.24 14:51, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> >> Then I'll probably have to install the flatpac which I don't really
> >> like... too bad
> > No, you do not "have to", as there are other options:
> > https://wiki.debian.org/Matrix
> >
> > You might "prefer", depending on various criteria, but those are
> > irrelevant here, so please refrain from further elaborating on your
> > reasons for concluding that in your view you "have to" do something.
> >
> >
> >   - Jonas
> >
> 
> Woah, why so aggressive?

I was unaware that I was agressive: Sorry for any harm that my choice of
words may have caused.

> What is wrong with saying something like "I will have to look for other 
> ways of installing it, in order to use the software, as the method I was 
> hoping for is not available"?

What I find wrong is the "have to [...] use [this particular] software".

I am not upset about imposing such contraint, and (and stated above)
didn't mean to upset anyone by pointing out the constraint either.

What I wanted to do was bring attention to alternatives closer to Debian
than the use of flatpack. And then immediately after providing such
suggestion I wanted to make it clear that I am not inviting further
discussion here, regardless if about shifting packaging format or about
shifting application.


> I bet more people would work on free software if the communication was 
> more polite. And I might as well argue that your unfriendly 'You might 
> "prefer"' and telling someone that their polite response is "irrelevant 
> here" might be in itself an irrelevant response, don't you think?

I will not dive into the vast areas of what I don't think.

(hint: asking negative questions is passive agressive)

Regardless of your tone, I do appreciate your pointing out how my tone
can be perceived negatively.  Thanks for that.

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
 * Sponsorship: https://ko-fi.com/drjones

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #228 received at 900928@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Matthias Geiger <werdahias@riseup.net>

To: 900928@bugs.debian.org, Jonas Smedegaard <js@debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#900928: Dependency update

Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 21:58:09 +0200

On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 11:34:28 +0100 Matthias Geiger 
<werdahias@riseup.net> wrote:
> Running cargo debstatus on the 5.x tree yields:
>
> NEW packages that need packaging from scratch:
>
>
> - html5gum
>
> - rqrr
>
> - html2pango
>
> - htmlescape
>
> -geo-uri
>
> - djb_hash
>
> - eyeball-im
>
> Once the ruma stack is in debian I'll update it to the latest release;
> then packaging fractal should be trivial.
>

Well still didn't have time for ruma (I hope to finish this in August).

Good news: sourceview5 just was accepted from NEW. This means all 
GTK-related deps are present and up to date. This leaves ruma plus some 
other crates (haven't checked). I'll file a leaf ITP for ruma soon™.

best,


werdahias

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