Debian Bug report logs - #839941
enable decklink

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Struminski, Marc" <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>

To: "submit@bugs.debian.org" <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 15:28:56 +0000

Package: ffmpeg
Severity: wishlist

Hi maintainers,

Is it possible to add libfreetype, nvenc, decklink and libmfx to ffmpeg in
Debian.
When it is also possible libebur128.

Decklink = Blackmagic Capture-Cards
Nvenc = NVIDIA hw-encoding
Libmfx = Intel hw-encoding

Kind regards
Marc Struminski

Message #10 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Bálint Réczey <balint@balintreczey.hu>

To: "Struminski, Marc" <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>, 839941@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 19:19:49 +0200

Hi Marc,

2016-10-06 17:28 GMT+02:00 Struminski, Marc <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>:
> Package: ffmpeg
> Severity: wishlist
>
> Hi maintainers,
>
> Is it possible to add libfreetype, nvenc, decklink and libmfx to ffmpeg in
> Debian.

Libfreetype seems to be possible.
nvenc is problematic because due to its license, but may be OK:
http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2016-April/193467.html

libmfx is not packaged.
decklink is not packaged either and seems to be non-free.

> When it is also possible libebur128.

libebur128 is already used.

Cheers,
Balint

Message #15 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Sebastian Ramacher <sramacher@debian.org>

To: balint@balintreczey.hu, 839941@bugs.debian.org

Cc: "Struminski, Marc" <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 20:56:16 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On 2016-10-06 19:19:49, Bálint Réczey wrote:
> Hi Marc,
> 
> 2016-10-06 17:28 GMT+02:00 Struminski, Marc <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>:
> > Package: ffmpeg
> > Severity: wishlist
> >
> > Hi maintainers,
> >
> > Is it possible to add libfreetype, nvenc, decklink and libmfx to ffmpeg in
> > Debian.
> 
> Libfreetype seems to be possible.

It's already used.

Cheers
-- 
Sebastian Ramacher

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Message #20 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Struminski, Marc" <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>

To: "balint@balintreczey.hu" <balint@balintreczey.hu>, "839941@bugs.debian.org" <839941@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 09:01:46 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,
I compiled ffmpeg with ‹enable-decklink without nonfree.
All you need are the header files.

Kind Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
 
---------------------------------------------------
Marc Struminski






Am 06.10.16, 19:19 schrieb "rbalint@gmail.com on behalf of Bálint Réczey"
unter <rbalint@gmail.com on behalf of balint@balintreczey.hu>:

>Hi Marc,
>
>2016-10-06 17:28 GMT+02:00 Struminski, Marc
><m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>:
>> Package: ffmpeg
>> Severity: wishlist
>>
>> Hi maintainers,
>>
>> Is it possible to add libfreetype, nvenc, decklink and libmfx to ffmpeg
>>in
>> Debian.
>
>Libfreetype seems to be possible.
>nvenc is problematic because due to its license, but may be OK:
>http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2016-April/193467.html
>
>libmfx is not packaged.
>decklink is not packaged either and seems to be non-free.
>
>> When it is also possible libebur128.
>
>libebur128 is already used.
>
>Cheers,
>Balint

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Message #25 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Andreas Cadhalpun <andreas.cadhalpun@googlemail.com>

To: "Struminski, Marc" <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>, 839941@bugs.debian.org, "balint@balintreczey.hu" <balint@balintreczey.hu>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:24:11 +0200

Hi Marc,

On 07.10.2016 11:01, Struminski, Marc wrote:
> I compiled ffmpeg with ‹enable-decklink without nonfree.
> All you need are the header files.

From where did you get these headers?

Best regards,
Andreas

Message #30 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Struminski, Marc" <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>

To: "839941@bugs.debian.org" <839941@bugs.debian.org>, Andreas Cadhalpun <andreas.cadhalpun@googlemail.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 08:35:48 +0000

Hi,
Decklink from here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/de/support
(https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/de/support/download/197eba8afa194f03829ea
6fdf7d7c163/Linux) Version 1.8 Desktop Video SDK

Nvenc from here: https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk
(https://developer.nvidia.com/designworks/video_codec_sdk/downloads/v7.0)


Kind Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
 
---------------------------------------------------
Marc Struminski






Am 14.10.16, 21:24 schrieb "Andreas Cadhalpun" unter
<andreas.cadhalpun@googlemail.com>:

>Hi Marc,
>
>On 07.10.2016 11:01, Struminski, Marc wrote:
>> I compiled ffmpeg with ‹enable-decklink without nonfree.
>> All you need are the header files.
>
>From where did you get these headers?
>
>Best regards,
>Andreas
>

Message #35 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Andreas Cadhalpun <andreas.cadhalpun@googlemail.com>

To: "Struminski, Marc" <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>, "839941@bugs.debian.org" <839941@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 16:58:26 +0200

Control: tags -1 upstream
Control: retitle -1 enable decklink

Hi Marc,

On 17.10.2016 10:35, Struminski, Marc wrote:
> Decklink from here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/de/support
> (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/de/support/download/197eba8afa194f03829ea
> 6fdf7d7c163/Linux) Version 1.8 Desktop Video SDK
> 
> Nvenc from here: https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk
> (https://developer.nvidia.com/designworks/video_codec_sdk/downloads/v7.0)

The nvenc page requires one to sign up a DEVELOPER PROGRAM AGREEMENT,
while the decklink page requires accepting an EULA...

In particular the decklink EULA says:
"1.4 The Licensee must not lease, rent, distribute or sub-license the Software"

Thus it seems to me that re-distribution of these headers is not allowed,
no matter what license is mentioned in the files.
(Even though it seems rather stupid to distribute a file with a free-software
license header under such an EULA.)

The nvenc agreement has an exception for such cases:
"Certain Materials provided to You by NVIDIA are accompanied by a separate
license agreement; You acknowledge and agree that such license agreement
shall govern Your use of such Materials, in addition to this Agreement.
You further agree that in the event of any inconsistency between this
Agreement and the corresponding provisions in the license agreement, the
license agreement shall govern."

So it is possible to re-distribute the nvenc headers and in fact they have
been included in the ffmpeg source repository upstream [1].

The decklink EULA lacks such an exception.

So if you want us to enable decklink in Debian's ffmpeg, I suggest you
contact blackmagic and ask them for a clarification of the license for
their headers.
If they are in fact freely re-distributable, you can then contact ffmpeg
upstream (ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org) and ask them to include these
headers similarly to the nvenc headers.

Best regards,
Andreas


1: https://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=commit;h=325e56479ff64c884f3bcccf922a7f7163488b89

Message #44 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Struminski, Marc" <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>

To: "839941@bugs.debian.org" <839941@bugs.debian.org>, Andreas Cadhalpun <andreas.cadhalpun@googlemail.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 12:47:52 +0000

Hi,

I thought, that you can use it free in ffmpeg, becuse the header files of
SDK says: The software is Provided "AS IS³Š.

Sorry for double mailing.


Kind Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
---------------------------------------------------
Marc Struminski







Am 17.10.16, 16:58 schrieb "Andreas Cadhalpun" unter
<andreas.cadhalpun@googlemail.com>:

>Control: tags -1 upstream
>Control: retitle -1 enable decklink
>
>Hi Marc,
>
>On 17.10.2016 10:35, Struminski, Marc wrote:
>> Decklink from here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/de/support
>> 
>>(https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/de/support/download/197eba8afa194f03829
>>ea
>> 6fdf7d7c163/Linux) Version 1.8 Desktop Video SDK
>> 
>> Nvenc from here: https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-video-codec-sdk
>> 
>>(https://developer.nvidia.com/designworks/video_codec_sdk/downloads/v7.0)
>
>The nvenc page requires one to sign up a DEVELOPER PROGRAM AGREEMENT,
>while the decklink page requires accepting an EULA...
>
>In particular the decklink EULA says:
>"1.4 The Licensee must not lease, rent, distribute or sub-license the
>Software"
>
>Thus it seems to me that re-distribution of these headers is not allowed,
>no matter what license is mentioned in the files.
>(Even though it seems rather stupid to distribute a file with a
>free-software
>license header under such an EULA.)
>
>The nvenc agreement has an exception for such cases:
>"Certain Materials provided to You by NVIDIA are accompanied by a separate
>license agreement; You acknowledge and agree that such license agreement
>shall govern Your use of such Materials, in addition to this Agreement.
>You further agree that in the event of any inconsistency between this
>Agreement and the corresponding provisions in the license agreement, the
>license agreement shall govern."
>
>So it is possible to re-distribute the nvenc headers and in fact they have
>been included in the ffmpeg source repository upstream [1].
>
>The decklink EULA lacks such an exception.
>
>So if you want us to enable decklink in Debian's ffmpeg, I suggest you
>contact blackmagic and ask them for a clarification of the license for
>their headers.
>If they are in fact freely re-distributable, you can then contact ffmpeg
>upstream (ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org) and ask them to include these
>headers similarly to the nvenc headers.
>
>Best regards,
>Andreas
>
>
>1: 
>https://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=commit;h=325e56479ff64c884f3bcccf
>922a7f7163488b89

Message #49 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk>

To: 839941@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Marc Struminski <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 15:27:02 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Marc,

Quoting Struminski, Marc (2016-10-18 14:47:52)
> I thought, that you can use it free in ffmpeg, becuse the header files 
> of SDK says: The software is Provided "AS IS³Š.

I believe that expression most likely is intended not to grant you any 
freedoms, but instead to mean "don't try sue us for implicitly promising 
you that it would work for a certain use-case, and you lost millions in 
investment in a now sunken business adventure" - i.e. what we in geek 
community call "if it breaks, you get to keep both pieces".

Copyright laws in most jurisdictions obey the Berne convention, which 
requires freedoms to be explicitly stated (and that the classic phrase 
"all rights reserved" is obsolete).  Stating that it is provided "as is" 
does not rxpand to the range of freedoms defined as the Debian Free 
Software Guidelines (later adopted as the definition for the Open Source 
movement).

NB! I am not a lawyer.  My guess above is based on analyzing semantics 
of a multitude of MIT-like licenses, and then comparing what seems like 
evolutionary trends in choice of words for various parts.

Further questions about whether some code is DFSG-free or not is best 
addressed to debian-legal@lists.debian.org.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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Message #56 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at>

To: 839941@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Balint Reczey <balint@balintreczey.hu>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 12:07:10 +0100

Hi!

I wonder if "confirmed" is really the right status:
There is absolutely no way that this can be fixed within 
Debian, the license of the necessary header files is 
certainly not compatible with any open-source license.

I suggest to close as wont-fix or invalid.

Carl Eugen

Message #61 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Bálint Réczey <balint@balintreczey.hu>

To: Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at>

Cc: 839941@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2017 10:44:15 +0100

Control: tags -1 wontfix

Hi Carl,

2017-03-07 12:07 GMT+01:00 Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at>:
> Hi!
>
> I wonder if "confirmed" is really the right status:
> There is absolutely no way that this can be fixed within
> Debian, the license of the necessary header files is
> certainly not compatible with any open-source license.
>
> I suggest to close as wont-fix or invalid.

I added the 'confirmed' tags since decklink support is missing indeed.
The 'wontfix' tag also makes sense since we can't fix the issue due
the the license.
I usually don't like closing bugs which still exist, because people would
report them again and again because the archived bugs are not shown by default
on BTS. I consider those bugs to be part of the documentation.

However if you strongly dislike this bug kept open feel free to close it. :-)

Cheers,
Balint

Message #68 received at 839941@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <sgunderson@bigfoot.com>

To: Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk>, 839941@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Marc Struminski <m.struminski@studio-berlin.de>

Subject: Re: Bug#839941: whishlist ffmpeg

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:35:14 +0200

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 03:27:02PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Copyright laws in most jurisdictions obey the Berne convention, which 
> requires freedoms to be explicitly stated (and that the classic phrase 
> "all rights reserved" is obsolete).  Stating that it is provided "as is" 
> does not rxpand to the range of freedoms defined as the Debian Free 
> Software Guidelines (later adopted as the definition for the Open Source 
> movement).

The DeckLink SDK header files are really DFSG-free; they are under a
BSD-style license with explicit grants of the required freedoms. (ftpmasters
have also accepted the license as free, as they are embedded in Nageru, which
is shipped in Debian.) The full license text reads:

/* -LICENSE-START-
** Copyright (c) 2009 Blackmagic Design
**
** Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person or organization
** obtaining a copy of the software and accompanying documentation covered by
** this license (the "Software") to use, reproduce, display, distribute,
** execute, and transmit the Software, and to prepare derivative works of the
** Software, and to permit third-parties to whom the Software is furnished to
** do so, all subject to the following:
** 
** The copyright notices in the Software and this entire statement, including
** the above license grant, this restriction and the following disclaimer,
** must be included in all copies of the Software, in whole or in part, and
** all derivative works of the Software, unless such copies or derivative
** works are solely in the form of machine-executable object code generated by
** a source language processor.
** 
** THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
** IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
** FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT
** SHALL THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS OR ANYONE DISTRIBUTING THE SOFTWARE BE LIABLE
** FOR ANY DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE,
** ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER
** DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
** -LICENSE-END-
*/

/* Steinar */
-- 
Homepage: https://www.sesse.net/

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