Debian Bug report logs - #823104
monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:50:01 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Package: monkeysign
Version: 2.0.2
Severity: normal

Hi,

I've read the package description and while I like the funny tone, I
also find it confusing for two reasons:

1.)

 monkeysign is a tool to overhaul the OpenPGP keysigning experience
 and bring it closer to something that most primates can understand.
[...]
 Monkeysign is the commandline signing software.

-> most primates can't understand commandline software?!

2.) 

 The project makes use of cheap digital cameras and the type of bar
 code known as a QRcode to provide a human-friendly yet still-secure
 keysigning experience.
[...]
 Monkeysign is the commandline signing software, a caff
 replacement.

-> is it a caff replacement or does it rely on QRcodes?


Please clarify the package description to make these things clear(er). Also
it might be appropriate to explain that monkeysign is a commandline
tool, just like caff or pius… (and that only monkeyscan does all the
monkey QR stuff and therefore has a gui…)


Also, I'm kinda surprised that I have recommends enabled and get this
after installing monkeysign:

$ monkeyscan 
some modules missing for scanning functionality: No module named zbar


-- 
cheers,
	Holger

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Message #10 received at 823104@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: anarcat <anarcat@debian.org>

To: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

Cc: 823104@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#823104: monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:46:40 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Control: tags -1 moreinfo
Control: severity -1 wishlist

On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 09:50:01PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Package: monkeysign
> Version: 2.0.2
> Severity: normal
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I've read the package description and while I like the funny tone, I
> also find it confusing for two reasons:
> 
> 1.)
> 
>  monkeysign is a tool to overhaul the OpenPGP keysigning experience
>  and bring it closer to something that most primates can understand.
> [...]
>  Monkeysign is the commandline signing software.
> 
> -> most primates can't understand commandline software?!

That is correct. What do you find find confusing here?

> 2.) 
> 
>  The project makes use of cheap digital cameras and the type of bar
>  code known as a QRcode to provide a human-friendly yet still-secure
>  keysigning experience.
> [...]
>  Monkeysign is the commandline signing software, a caff
>  replacement.
> 
> -> is it a caff replacement or does it rely on QRcodes?

It's funny that you quote only the first sentence of that paragraph, the
full paragraph is:

 Monkeysign is the commandline signing software, a caff
 replacement. Monkeyscan is the graphical user interface that scans
 qrcodes.

So Monkeysign is the caff replacement, and monkeyscan is the GUI.    
 
> Please clarify the package description to make these things
> clear(er).

I would appreciate a suggestion on how to phrase this better. With the
above, I am not sure I can find a proper formulation that would be
satisfactory.

> Also it might be appropriate to explain that monkeysign is a
> commandline tool, just like caff or pius… (and that only monkeyscan
> does all the monkey QR stuff and therefore has a gui…)

Again, I felt that the last paragraph did exactly that.

> Also, I'm kinda surprised that I have recommends enabled and get this
> after installing monkeysign:
> 
> $ monkeyscan some modules missing for scanning functionality: No
> module named zbar

That seems like a completely different issue...

python-zbar and python-zbarpygtk and both in Recommends - are they
installed on your computer?

A.

-- 
Il est sage de nous réconcilier avec notre adolescence ; haїr, mépriser,
nier ou simplement oublier l’adolescent que nous fûmes est en soi une
attitude adolescente.
                        - Daniel Pennac, Comme un roman

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Message #19 received at 823104@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

To: anarcat <anarcat@debian.org>

Cc: 823104@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#823104: monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 16:10:13 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi anarcat,

sorry for not replying earlier…

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 02:46:40PM -0400, anarcat wrote:
> > I've read the package description and while I like the funny tone, I
> > also find it confusing for two reasons:
> > 
> > 1.)
> > 
> >  monkeysign is a tool to overhaul the OpenPGP keysigning experience
> >  and bring it closer to something that most primates can understand.
> > [...]
> >  Monkeysign is the commandline signing software.
> > 
> > -> most primates can't understand commandline software?!
> 
> That is correct. What do you find find confusing here?
 
how a command line tool is something most primates can understand. I thought we
agreed most don't.

> > 2.) 
> > 
> >  The project makes use of cheap digital cameras and the type of bar
> >  code known as a QRcode to provide a human-friendly yet still-secure
> >  keysigning experience.
> > [...]
> >  Monkeysign is the commandline signing software, a caff
> >  replacement.
> > 
> > -> is it a caff replacement or does it rely on QRcodes?
> 
> It's funny that you quote only the first sentence of that paragraph, the
> full paragraph is:
> 
>  Monkeysign is the commandline signing software, a caff
>  replacement. Monkeyscan is the graphical user interface that scans
>  qrcodes.
> 
> So Monkeysign is the caff replacement, and monkeyscan is the GUI.    

yes, but the first two paragraphs are confusing: the very first word
of the description is "monkeysign" but now I believe it's used for both
monkeysign and monkeyscan(?). The 2nd paragraph OTOH seems to be about
monkeyscan(?) while it hasnt been mentioned yet. The 3rd paragraph
is probably about monkeyscan as well - this is totally unclear.

> I would appreciate a suggestion on how to phrase this better. With the
> above, I am not sure I can find a proper formulation that would be
> satisfactory.
 
better now?

> > Also it might be appropriate to explain that monkeysign is a
> > commandline tool, just like caff or pius… (and that only monkeyscan
> > does all the monkey QR stuff and therefore has a gui…
> Again, I felt that the last paragraph did exactly that.

can one use monkeysign without monkeyscan? the other way round?
 

-- 
cheers,
	Holger

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Message #24 received at 823104@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

To: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

Cc: 823104@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#823104: monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 12:35:53 -0400

On 2017-09-16 16:10:13, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi anarcat,
>
> sorry for not replying earlier…
>
> On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 02:46:40PM -0400, anarcat wrote:
>> > I've read the package description and while I like the funny tone, I
>> > also find it confusing for two reasons:
>> > 
>> > 1.)
>> > 
>> >  monkeysign is a tool to overhaul the OpenPGP keysigning experience
>> >  and bring it closer to something that most primates can understand.
>> > [...]
>> >  Monkeysign is the commandline signing software.
>> > 
>> > -> most primates can't understand commandline software?!
>> 
>> That is correct. What do you find find confusing here?
>  
> how a command line tool is something most primates can understand. I thought we
> agreed most don't.

Monkeysign is the project as a whole, and it has both a commandline
interface and graphical interface.

So it is assumed primates can use one or the other at least.

>> > 2.) 
>> > 
>> >  The project makes use of cheap digital cameras and the type of bar
>> >  code known as a QRcode to provide a human-friendly yet still-secure
>> >  keysigning experience.
>> > [...]
>> >  Monkeysign is the commandline signing software, a caff
>> >  replacement.
>> > 
>> > -> is it a caff replacement or does it rely on QRcodes?
>> 
>> It's funny that you quote only the first sentence of that paragraph, the
>> full paragraph is:
>> 
>>  Monkeysign is the commandline signing software, a caff
>>  replacement. Monkeyscan is the graphical user interface that scans
>>  qrcodes.
>> 
>> So Monkeysign is the caff replacement, and monkeyscan is the GUI.    
>
> yes, but the first two paragraphs are confusing: the very first word
> of the description is "monkeysign" but now I believe it's used for both
> monkeysign and monkeyscan(?). The 2nd paragraph OTOH seems to be about
> monkeyscan(?) while it hasnt been mentioned yet. The 3rd paragraph
> is probably about monkeyscan as well - this is totally unclear.

there's an issue open to merge the two binaries. I just haven't figured
out how best to do that right now, and i mostly use the commandline
binary for now.

keep in mind the description includes the goals of the project, which
may or may not be completed...

>> I would appreciate a suggestion on how to phrase this better. With the
>> above, I am not sure I can find a proper formulation that would be
>> satisfactory.
>  
> better now?

well, can you provide a patch or some more explicit wording?

>> > Also it might be appropriate to explain that monkeysign is a
>> > commandline tool, just like caff or pius… (and that only monkeyscan
>> > does all the monkey QR stuff and therefore has a gui…
>> Again, I felt that the last paragraph did exactly that.
>
> can one use monkeysign without monkeyscan? the other way round?

yes, both.

a.

-- 
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
People in glass cities shouldn't fire missiles.
                        - Bansky

Message #29 received at 823104@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

To: Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

Cc: 823104@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#823104: monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 16:54:38 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 12:35:53PM -0400, Antoine Beaupré wrote:
> Monkeysign is the project as a whole, and it has both a commandline
> interface and graphical interface.
 
I see. That's a rather unfortunate naming decision, but at least I get it now.
(Using one name for two things is seldom a good idea…)

> So it is assumed primates can use one or the other at least.

btw, this is also slightly insulting: if one doesnt understand monkeysign one
is more stupid than a monkey. I'm not so sure I want to give this software
to people learning GPG or having trouble with it…
 
> there's an issue open to merge the two binaries. [...]

I think than it's better to wait for this and then fix the description, should
be much easier at that time!

> keep in mind the description includes the goals of the project, which
> may or may not be completed...

ah. Probably better to remove them from ethe description then, or clearly
mark them as (uncompleted) goals.


-- 
cheers,
	Holger

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #34 received at 823104@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

To: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

Cc: 823104@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#823104: monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 13:07:01 -0400

On 2017-09-16 16:54:38, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 12:35:53PM -0400, Antoine Beaupré wrote:
>> Monkeysign is the project as a whole, and it has both a commandline
>> interface and graphical interface.
>  
> I see. That's a rather unfortunate naming decision, but at least I get it now.
> (Using one name for two things is seldom a good idea…)
>
>> So it is assumed primates can use one or the other at least.
>
> btw, this is also slightly insulting: if one doesnt understand monkeysign one
> is more stupid than a monkey. I'm not so sure I want to give this software
> to people learning GPG or having trouble with it…

I think you are being insulting to primates, personally. :p

Besides, humans *are* primates... Keep in mind that "monkeysign" is
named after "monkeysphere" which has a whole narrative around social
studies of actual monkeys and they way they interact, and what that
implies on human social relations as well.

>> there's an issue open to merge the two binaries. [...]
>
> I think than it's better to wait for this and then fix the description, should
> be much easier at that time!

well, it's a hard fix to make at the software level :p

>> keep in mind the description includes the goals of the project, which
>> may or may not be completed...
>
> ah. Probably better to remove them from ethe description then, or clearly
> mark them as (uncompleted) goals.

again, i'd welcome an actual patch here...

thanks

a.

-- 
A lot of people never use their initiative because no-one told them to.
                        - Bansky

Message #39 received at 823104@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

To: Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

Cc: 823104@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#823104: monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 17:56:24 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi,

so here's my take at improving the description, based on the current
description in stretch: (I believe some lines are too long now, but left them
as such for the sake of a better diff.)

$ cat description.new
Description-en: OpenPGP key signing and exchange for humans
 monkeysign is project to overhaul the OpenPGP keysigning experience
 and bring it closer to something that most primates can understand.
 .
 To achieve that it makes use of cheap digital cameras and the type of bar
 code known as a QRcode to provide a human-friendly yet still-secure
 keysigning experience.
 .
 No more reciting tedious strings of hexadecimal characters.  And, you
 can build a little rogue's gallery of the people that you have met
 and exchanged keys with!
 .
 Monkeysign is also the name of it's commandline signing software, a caff
 replacement. Monkeyscan is the graphical user interface that scans
 qrcodes.
$ diff -Nur description.orig description.new 
--- description.orig	2017-09-16 19:49:45.216000000 +0200
+++ description.new	2017-09-16 19:50:52.965000000 +0200
@@ -1,8 +1,8 @@
 Description-en: OpenPGP key signing and exchange for humans
- monkeysign is a tool to overhaul the OpenPGP keysigning experience
+ monkeysign is a project to overhaul the OpenPGP keysigning experience
  and bring it closer to something that most primates can understand.
  .
- The project makes use of cheap digital cameras and the type of bar
+ To achieve that it makes use of cheap digital cameras and the type of bar
  code known as a QRcode to provide a human-friendly yet still-secure
  keysigning experience.
  .
@@ -10,6 +10,6 @@
  can build a little rogue's gallery of the people that you have met
  and exchanged keys with!
  .
- Monkeysign is the commandline signing software, a caff
+ Monkeysign is also the name of it's commandline signing software, a caff
  replacement. Monkeyscan is the graphical user interface that scans
  qrcodes.



I'm not entirely happy with the last paragraph, mostly because the first
three paragraphs make it sound like monkeyscan can do much more than just
scanning. But maybe it cannot?

(Also the third paragraph is still "out of style": the other paragraphs
describe what monkeysign is, while this one is different: the first sentence
has no subject, while the second one clearly and suddenly addresses the
reader, you!)


-- 
cheers,
	Holger

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Message #44 received at 823104@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Antoine Beaupré <anarcat@debian.org>

To: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

Cc: 823104@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#823104: monkeysign: Twice confused by package description

Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2017 09:10:12 -0400

Control: tags -1 +pending +patch

On 2017-09-16 17:56:24, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> so here's my take at improving the description, based on the current
> description in stretch: (I believe some lines are too long now, but left them
> as such for the sake of a better diff.)

thanks, i have pushed this as a6b29b9 in the git repository and this
will be part of the next unstable upload.

a.

-- 
La destruction de la société totalitaire marchande n'est pas une affaire
d'opinion. Elle est une nécessité absolue dans un monde que l'on sait
condamné. Puisque le pouvoir est partout, c'est partout et tout le temps
qu'il faut le combattre. - Jean-François Brient, de la servitude moderne

Message #53 received at 823104-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Debian FTP Masters <ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org>

To: 719240-done@bugs.debian.org,720052-done@bugs.debian.org,723047-done@bugs.debian.org,725061-done@bugs.debian.org,732411-done@bugs.debian.org,736120-done@bugs.debian.org,760717-done@bugs.debian.org,780393-done@bugs.debian.org,823104-done@bugs.debian.org,885517-done@bugs.debian.org,914276-done@bugs.debian.org,935335-done@bugs.debian.org,937066-done@bugs.debian.org,954214-done@bugs.debian.org,954221-done@bugs.debian.org,

Cc: monkeysign@packages.debian.org

Subject: Bug#954446: Removed package(s) from unstable

Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 18:55:29 +0000

Version: 2.2.4+rm

Dear submitter,

as the package monkeysign has just been removed from the Debian archive
unstable we hereby close the associated bug reports.  We are sorry
that we couldn't deal with your issue properly.

For details on the removal, please see https://bugs.debian.org/954446

The version of this package that was in Debian prior to this removal
can still be found using http://snapshot.debian.org/.

Please note that the changes have been done on the master archive and
will not propagate to any mirrors until the next dinstall run at the
earliest.

This message was generated automatically; if you believe that there is
a problem with it please contact the archive administrators by mailing
ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org.

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pp.
Scott Kitterman (the ftpmaster behind the curtain)

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