Debian Bug report logs - #815503
dbus-x11: Several session buses if scripts in Xsession.d use D-Bus

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>

To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: dbus-x11: Several session buses start

Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2016 23:50:09 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Package: dbus-x11
Version: 1.8.20-0+deb8u1
Severity: important
User: debian-accessibility@lists.debian.org
Usertag: a11y

Hello,

We have been noticing several dbus-daemon --session being started during
a user session, which creates a mess, notably with accessibility
engines.

Debug shows that this is happening:

- /etc/X11/Xsession.d files are processed:
  - /etc/X11/Xsession.d/75dbus_dbus-launch prepends dbus-launch to
    $STARTUP
  - /etc/X11/Xsession.d/98vboxadd-xclient somehow triggers
    dbus-launch --autostart, and that starts a dbus-daemon --session
- $STARTUP is run
  - dbus-launch starts another dbus-daemon --session

From then on, depending how the session bus is detected, programs will
find one or the other session bus, and thus the mess...

We have also seen some people run amixer from some
/etc/X11/Xsession.d/91* scripts, and pulseaudio there would also trigger
a dbus-launch --autostart

These autostarts can't really be avoided, so I'd say dbus-launch should
be started by 75dbus_dbus-launch it self, as the attached patch does, so
that scripts after 75 can use that session bus.

Samuel

-- System Information:
Debian Release: stretch/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable-debug'), (500, 'oldoldstable'), (500, 'buildd-unstable'), (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable'), (500, 'oldstable'), (1, 'experimental-debug'), (1, 'buildd-experimental'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386

Kernel: Linux 4.4.0 (SMP w/4 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages dbus-x11 depends on:
ii  dbus         1.10.6-1
ii  libc6        2.21-8
ii  libdbus-1-3  1.10.6-1
ii  libx11-6     2:1.6.3-1

dbus-x11 recommends no packages.

dbus-x11 suggests no packages.

-- no debconf information

[patch (text/plain, attachment)]

Message #10 received at 815503@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>

To: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>, 815503@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#815503: dbus-x11: Several session buses if scripts in Xsession.d use D-Bus

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 07:18:28 +0000

Control: retitle 815503 dbus-x11: Several session buses if scripts in Xsession.d use D-Bus
Control: tags 815503 jessie

On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 at 23:50:09 +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> We have been noticing several dbus-daemon --session being started during
> a user session, which creates a mess, notably with accessibility
> engines.

The traditional answer, and the answer applicable to jessie, has been
"you can't do that, it is incorrect to run dbus-launch or use dbus-daemon
in Xsession.d".

The problem is that whenever dbus-launch happens to be started, the
environment variables that were in its environment at that time are what
ends up in the dbus-daemon's environment. This means that if anything
in Xsession.d tries to run after dbus-launch and set an environment
variable, bus-activated services will not see that environment variable. A
significant number of scripts in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ exist only to set
environment variables, particularly in older Debian releases, so this
works poorly.

Since dbus 1.10 (in stretch), we have mitigated this differently, by
running dbus-launch from 75dbus_dbus-launch as you suggest, but then
running another script (95dbus_update-activation-env) very late in
Xsession.d, which uploads most of its new environment into the existing
dbus-daemon (and into the equivalent launch environment in systemd --user,
if running). This is a significant structural change which requires
an additional upstream executable, so I would be somewhat reluctant
to backport it into an existing stable release, and I don't think the
release team are very likely to accept it.

That is also still not a full solution to the problem that setting
environment variables in /etc/X11/Xsession.d conflicts with starting
long-running daemons from /etc/X11/Xsession.d: anything started via D-Bus
activation or as a systemd user service between 75dbus_dbus-launch and
95dbus_update-activation-env will not pick up an environment variable set
by (for example) 90atk-adaptor. However, it's the best I could think of.

I think the long-term solution to this is for normal use of the platform
to rely less on environment variables and script hooks, and more on files
and sockets with well-known names in $HOME or in the $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR
set up by systemd-logind or equivalent (such as $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/bus
with the dbus-user-session package) and on-demand auto-activation
(D-Bus activation, systemd socket activation, .desktop files in
/etc/xdg/autostart and similar mechanisms). It's fine to have environment
variables as an override for special purposes, but just using the
system normally shouldn't need as many of them as it does. For example,
the dbus-user-session package changes $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS from
"essential for normal use" to "only needed for backwards compatibility",
and recent gnupg-agent versions have greatly reduced the need for
$GPG_AGENT_INFO by using a well-known socket path.

On non-systemd systems, Ubuntu used to have a standalone implementation
of $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR as a PAM module (libpam-xdg-support). However, Ubuntu
no longer uses it and the last commit was in 2012, so if people want this
structure without systemd, they will probably have to become its upstream
maintainers. I suspect that we're more likely to end up with systemd
systems working well, and non-systemd systems continuing to stumble
along with best-effort support that works if nobody sneezes too hard.

    S

Message #19 received at 815503@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>

To: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>, 815503@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#815503: dbus-x11: Several session buses if scripts in Xsession.d use D-Bus

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 07:54:28 +0000

On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 at 07:18:28 +0000, Simon McVittie wrote:
> The traditional answer, and the answer applicable to jessie, has been
> "you can't do that, it is incorrect to run dbus-launch or use dbus-daemon
> in Xsession.d".

See also <https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=681241>,
<https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=682375>,
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/807614>,
<https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/809900> for earlier discussion
of this topic.

    S

Message #24 received at 815503@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>

To: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>

Cc: 815503@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#815503: dbus-x11: Several session buses if scripts in Xsession.d use D-Bus

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 21:18:13 +0100

Simon McVittie, on Mon 22 Feb 2016 07:18:28 +0000, wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 at 23:50:09 +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > We have been noticing several dbus-daemon --session being started during
> > a user session, which creates a mess, notably with accessibility
> > engines.
> 
> The traditional answer, and the answer applicable to jessie, has been
> "you can't do that, it is incorrect to run dbus-launch or use dbus-daemon
> in Xsession.d".

Ok, but as I explained, it is hard to realize that one is doing that...
I would have never thought that amixer would trigger dbus-launch for
instance.

And the relation between the "culprit" (amixer) and the effect (the
desktop being basically completely inaccessible) is far from obvious, so
it's very hard to even realize how something is getting wrong.

So we'd at least need to find a way to detect and notify about this
issue more prominently, so people know they're doing it wrong.

> Since dbus 1.10 (in stretch), we have mitigated this differently, by
> running dbus-launch from 75dbus_dbus-launch as you suggest,

? No, it is still prepended to $STARTUP only.

> anything started via D-Bus activation or as a systemd user service
> between 75dbus_dbus-launch and 95dbus_update-activation-env
> will not pick up an environment variable set by (for example)
> 90atk-adaptor.

I see.

Samuel

Message #29 received at 815503@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>

To: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>, 815503@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#815503: dbus-x11: Several session buses if scripts in Xsession.d use D-Bus

Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2016 21:21:30 +0000

On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 at 21:18:13 +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> Simon McVittie, on Mon 22 Feb 2016 07:18:28 +0000, wrote:
> > Since dbus 1.10 (in stretch), we have mitigated this differently, by
> > running dbus-launch from 75dbus_dbus-launch as you suggest,
> 
> ? No, it is still prepended to $STARTUP only.

My mistake; it's started early if you have the dbus-user-session package
(dbus started by systemd --user) but not if you're relying on dbus-launch.

Nobody has reported major issues with dbus-user-session so far, so I
think we could extend this model to the dbus-launch code path in stretch.
I still think this is too disruptive a change to be suitable for stable,
though.

    S

Message #34 received at 815503@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ksamak <ksamak@riseup.net>

To: 815503@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#815503: dbus-x11: Several session buses if scripts in Xsession.d use D-Bus

Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 16:03:48 +0100

Sorry about the noise, just a notive that i just spent a couple hours struggling with this
bug, and trying to understand why orca didn't want to run.
I guess some of our users will also run into this, i'll keep track of
that.
Thank you for the patch.
-- 
Ksamak
hypra.fr Team

Message #39 received at 815503@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>

To: 815503@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#815503: dbus-x11: Several session buses if scripts in Xsession.d use D-Bus

Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 19:45:02 +0000

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 at 16:03:48 +0100, Ksamak wrote:
> Sorry about the noise, just a notive that i just spent a couple hours struggling with this
> bug, and trying to understand why orca didn't want to run.
> I guess some of our users will also run into this, i'll keep track of
> that.
> Thank you for the patch.

If applied to jessie or a jessie-based derivative, the patch on this bug
will cause just as many issues as it solves. I tried the same change
back in 2011, and it caused regressions. Given the choice between a
pre-existing bug and a new bug of similar severity, I would prefer to keep
the existing bug - "we have the same bugs we always had, instead of new
ones" is stability of a sort. Sorry you're affected by the existing bug,
but the alternative isn't significantly better.

With the dbus-update-activation-environment change in 1.10 (which was
primarily done to support dbus-user-session), this patch is less risky,
and I'm considering applying it in stretch (only) on that basis.

The fundamental issue here is that the two roles of Xsession.d - setting
environment variables that should apply to "everything", and starting
long-running background processes that are likely be affected by those
environment variables - are in conflict. If possible, I would recommend
talking to your services' upstream developers about ways to resolve this
permanently, which include:

* starting long-running background processes after Xsession.d, for
  example from /etc/xdg/autostart/, at least when in an environment
  like GNOME that is known to use /etc/xdg/autostart/

* starting long-running background processes on-demand (D-Bus
  and/or systemd activation) instead of "eagerly"

* configuring packages to work by default or read settings from
  configuration files, instead of requiring special environment
  variables, where possible

* communicating transient settings via $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR, where
  supported (either libpam-systemd or libpam-xdg-support must
  be present)

    S

Message #44 received at 815503-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>

To: 815503-close@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#815503: fixed in dbus 1.10.8-1

Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 19:49:22 +0000

Source: dbus
Source-Version: 1.10.8-1

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
dbus, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive.

A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 815503@bugs.debian.org,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> (supplier of updated dbus package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 19:15:47 +0000
Source: dbus
Binary: dbus dbus-1-dbg dbus-1-doc dbus-tests dbus-udeb dbus-user-session dbus-x11 libdbus-1-3 libdbus-1-3-udeb libdbus-1-dev
Architecture: source
Version: 1.10.8-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team <pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Changed-By: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>
Description:
 dbus       - simple interprocess messaging system (daemon and utilities)
 dbus-1-dbg - simple interprocess messaging system (debug symbols)
 dbus-1-doc - simple interprocess messaging system (documentation)
 dbus-tests - simple interprocess messaging system (test infrastructure)
 dbus-udeb  - simple interprocess messaging system (minimal runtime) (udeb)
 dbus-user-session - simple interprocess messaging system (systemd --user integration)
 dbus-x11   - simple interprocess messaging system (X11 deps)
 libdbus-1-3 - simple interprocess messaging system (library)
 libdbus-1-3-udeb - simple interprocess messaging system (minimal library) (udeb)
 libdbus-1-dev - simple interprocess messaging system (development headers)
Closes: 813970 815503
Changes:
 dbus (1.10.8-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * dbus.prerm: ensure that dbus.socket is stopped before removal,
     so that a new connection to the bus won't cause dbus.service to be
     restarted (Closes: #813970)
   * debian/75dbus_dbus-launch: when not using systemd --user or the
     dbus-user-session package is not installed, start dbus-daemon early,
     then upload the full environment from Xsession.d later on
     (in 95dbus_update-activation-env). This more closely matches the
     behaviour with dbus-user-session. (Closes: #815503; thanks to Samuel
     Thibault)
   * Switch Vcs-Git to https (see #810378)
   * debian/upstream/signing-key.asc: add upstream signing keys
     (just my keys for now, in practice I do almost all dbus releases)
   * debian/watch: use https and describe how to download signatures
   * Standards-Version: 3.9.7 (no changes needed)
   * Sort .install files and remove unnecessary debian/tmp prefix
   * Normalize lists of packages and uploaders via wrap-and-sort -ast
   * Normalize order of packages via wrap-and-sort -b
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Message #49 received at 815503-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>

To: 815503-close@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#815503: fixed in dbus 1.11.2-1

Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 22:22:22 +0000

Source: dbus
Source-Version: 1.11.2-1

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
dbus, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive.

A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 815503@bugs.debian.org,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> (supplier of updated dbus package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 20:10:23 +0000
Source: dbus
Binary: dbus dbus-1-dbg dbus-1-doc dbus-tests dbus-udeb dbus-user-session dbus-x11 libdbus-1-3 libdbus-1-3-udeb libdbus-1-dev
Architecture: source
Version: 1.11.2-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Utopia Maintenance Team <pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Changed-By: Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>
Description:
 dbus       - simple interprocess messaging system (daemon and utilities)
 dbus-1-dbg - simple interprocess messaging system (debug symbols)
 dbus-1-doc - simple interprocess messaging system (documentation)
 dbus-tests - simple interprocess messaging system (test infrastructure)
 dbus-udeb  - simple interprocess messaging system (minimal runtime) (udeb)
 dbus-user-session - simple interprocess messaging system (systemd --user integration)
 dbus-x11   - simple interprocess messaging system (X11 deps)
 libdbus-1-3 - simple interprocess messaging system (library)
 libdbus-1-3-udeb - simple interprocess messaging system (minimal library) (udeb)
 libdbus-1-dev - simple interprocess messaging system (development headers)
Closes: 813970 815503
Changes:
 dbus (1.11.2-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Merge packaging from unstable
   * Change the experimental watch file to track development releases
   * New upstream release
   * debian/control: change Vcs-Git to point to the experimental branch
 .
 dbus (1.10.8-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * New upstream release
   * dbus.prerm: ensure that dbus.socket is stopped before removal,
     so that a new connection to the bus won't cause dbus.service to be
     restarted (Closes: #813970)
   * debian/75dbus_dbus-launch: when not using systemd --user or the
     dbus-user-session package is not installed, start dbus-daemon early,
     then upload the full environment from Xsession.d later on
     (in 95dbus_update-activation-env). This more closely matches the
     behaviour with dbus-user-session. (Closes: #815503; thanks to Samuel
     Thibault)
   * Switch Vcs-Git to https (see #810378)
   * debian/upstream/signing-key.asc: add upstream signing keys
     (just my keys for now, in practice I do almost all dbus releases)
   * debian/watch: use https and describe how to download signatures
   * Standards-Version: 3.9.7 (no changes needed)
   * Sort .install files and remove unnecessary debian/tmp prefix
   * Normalize lists of packages and uploaders via wrap-and-sort -ast
   * Normalize order of packages via wrap-and-sort -b
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