Debian Bug report logs - #776948
RM: pgtune -- ROM; upstream dead, and bad advise to be used today

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Message #3 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de>

To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: RM: pgtune -- ROM; upstream dead, and bad advise to be used today

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 15:01:17 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Package: ftp.debian.org
Severity: normal

Hi,

pgtune hasn't seen a new upstream release since about the medieval
ages, and the last git commit isn't very current either. The
postgresql.conf it produces is worse than the defaults in some
aspects, so people are rather harmed than helped by this tool. Let's
get rid of it, in unstable and jessie. It doesn't have any rdeps.

Please remove pgtune.

Christoph
-- 
cb@df7cb.de | http://www.df7cb.de/

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Message #8 received at 776948@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Stuart Bishop <stuart.bishop@canonical.com>

To: Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de>, 776948@bugs.debian.org, Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: Re: [Pkg-postgresql-public] Bug#776948: RM: pgtune -- ROM; upstream dead, and bad advise to be used today

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 12:33:02 +0700

On 3 February 2015 at 21:01, Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de> wrote:
> Package: ftp.debian.org
> Severity: normal
>
> Hi,
>
> pgtune hasn't seen a new upstream release since about the medieval
> ages, and the last git commit isn't very current either. The
> postgresql.conf it produces is worse than the defaults in some
> aspects, so people are rather harmed than helped by this tool. Let's
> get rid of it, in unstable and jessie. It doesn't have any rdeps.
>
> Please remove pgtune.

I'm still using it to set 'best practice' defaults based on hardware specs.

Yes, some of the recommendations are bogus and none of the maintainers
interested in fixing it. However it does give me a starting point
which I can then fix (capping shared_buffers to 8GB is the critical
one). Without pgtune, I'd need to rewrite pgtune rather than my
current approach of fixing its failures.

-- 
Stuart Bishop <stuart.bishop@canonical.com>

Message #13 received at 776948@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com>

To: Stuart Bishop <stuart.bishop@canonical.com>

Cc: Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de>, 776948@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: [Pkg-postgresql-public] Bug#776948: RM: pgtune -- ROM; upstream dead, and bad advise to be used today

Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2015 00:52:58 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Wednesday, February 04, 2015 12:33:02 Stuart Bishop wrote:
> On 3 February 2015 at 21:01, Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de> 
wrote:
> > Package: ftp.debian.org
> > Severity: normal
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > pgtune hasn't seen a new upstream release since about the medieval
> > ages, and the last git commit isn't very current either. The
> > postgresql.conf it produces is worse than the defaults in some
> > aspects, so people are rather harmed than helped by this tool. Let's
> > get rid of it, in unstable and jessie. It doesn't have any rdeps.
> > 
> > Please remove pgtune.
> 
> I'm still using it to set 'best practice' defaults based on hardware specs.
> 
> Yes, some of the recommendations are bogus and none of the maintainers
> interested in fixing it. However it does give me a starting point
> which I can then fix (capping shared_buffers to 8GB is the critical
> one). Without pgtune, I'd need to rewrite pgtune rather than my
> current approach of fixing its failures.

Are you willing to take over maintenance?  If it's dead upstream and 
unmaintained in Debian (the removal bug equates to the current maintainer 
declining to further maintain it and stating removal is better than it being 
unmaintained in Debian) then it should be removed.

If so, you've got about 10 days to get it fixed in Testing or it'll be removed.  
If not, then it should go and you can keep your own local package for your 
purposes.

Scott K
FTP Assistant

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Message #16 received at 776948@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de>

To: Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com>

Cc: Stuart Bishop <stuart.bishop@canonical.com>, 776948@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: [Pkg-postgresql-public] Bug#776948: RM: pgtune -- ROM; upstream dead, and bad advise to be used today

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 10:43:38 +0100

Re: Scott Kitterman 2015-02-04 <2026939.ppIJUsApvY@scott-latitude-e6320>
> > > pgtune hasn't seen a new upstream release since about the medieval
> > > ages, and the last git commit isn't very current either. The
> > > postgresql.conf it produces is worse than the defaults in some
> > > aspects, so people are rather harmed than helped by this tool. Let's
> > > get rid of it, in unstable and jessie. It doesn't have any rdeps.
> > > 
> > > Please remove pgtune.
> > 
> > I'm still using it to set 'best practice' defaults based on hardware specs.
> > 
> > Yes, some of the recommendations are bogus and none of the maintainers
> > interested in fixing it. However it does give me a starting point
> > which I can then fix (capping shared_buffers to 8GB is the critical
> > one). Without pgtune, I'd need to rewrite pgtune rather than my
> > current approach of fixing its failures.

Frankly I've never seen pgtune apply any settings even near to that,
though that might be because no options were passed in. But of course
that's what people out there tend to be doing. As Andres put it on IRC
yesterday, "I've earned quite some amount of money fixing the results
of running pgtune".

> Are you willing to take over maintenance?  If it's dead upstream and 
> unmaintained in Debian (the removal bug equates to the current maintainer 
> declining to further maintain it and stating removal is better than it being 
> unmaintained in Debian) then it should be removed.

What should be done is someone forking pgtune on github or elsewhere,
and produce a new version that is more foolproof than the current
footgun.

I can do the Debian uploads, but I don't have time to get it fixed
upstream.

> If so, you've got about 10 days to get it fixed in Testing or it'll be removed.  
> If not, then it should go and you can keep your own local package for your 
> purposes.

I don't think it's possible to get the necessary amount of changes
into testing. What we could probably do is to just remove it from
testing, and keep it in unstable for later updating.

Stuart?

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Christoph Berg
-- 
Senior Berater, Tel.: +49 (0)21 61 / 46 43-187
credativ GmbH, HRB Mönchengladbach 12080, USt-ID-Nummer: DE204566209
Hohenzollernstr. 133, 41061 Mönchengladbach
Geschäftsführung: Dr. Michael Meskes, Jörg Folz, Sascha Heuer
pgp fingerprint: 5C48 FE61 57F4 9179 5970  87C6 4C5A 6BAB 12D2 A7AE

Message #21 received at 776948@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Stuart Bishop <stuart.bishop@canonical.com>

To: Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de>, Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com>, Stuart Bishop <stuart.bishop@canonical.com>, 776948@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: [Pkg-postgresql-public] Bug#776948: RM: pgtune -- ROM; upstream dead, and bad advise to be used today

Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 19:21:48 +0700

On 4 February 2015 at 16:43, Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de> wrote:

> Re: Scott Kitterman 2015-02-04 <2026939.ppIJUsApvY@scott-latitude-e6320>
>> > > pgtune hasn't seen a new upstream release since about the medieval
>> > > ages, and the last git commit isn't very current either. The
>> > > postgresql.conf it produces is worse than the defaults in some
>> > > aspects, so people are rather harmed than helped by this tool. Let's
>> > > get rid of it, in unstable and jessie. It doesn't have any rdeps.
>> > >
>> > > Please remove pgtune.
>> >
>> > I'm still using it to set 'best practice' defaults based on hardware specs.
>> >
>> > Yes, some of the recommendations are bogus and none of the maintainers
>> > interested in fixing it. However it does give me a starting point
>> > which I can then fix (capping shared_buffers to 8GB is the critical
>> > one). Without pgtune, I'd need to rewrite pgtune rather than my
>> > current approach of fixing its failures.
>
> Frankly I've never seen pgtune apply any settings even near to that,
> though that might be because no options were passed in. But of course
> that's what people out there tend to be doing. As Andres put it on IRC
> yesterday, "I've earned quite some amount of money fixing the results
> of running pgtune".

Yes, its a tool and needs to be applied correctly. I also agree it is
a flawed tool and needs to be applied with great care.


>> Are you willing to take over maintenance?  If it's dead upstream and
>> unmaintained in Debian (the removal bug equates to the current maintainer
>> declining to further maintain it and stating removal is better than it being
>> unmaintained in Debian) then it should be removed.
>
> What should be done is someone forking pgtune on github or elsewhere,
> and produce a new version that is more foolproof than the current
> footgun.

Agreed.


>> If so, you've got about 10 days to get it fixed in Testing or it'll be removed.
>> If not, then it should go and you can keep your own local package for your
>> purposes.
>
> I don't think it's possible to get the necessary amount of changes
> into testing. What we could probably do is to just remove it from
> testing, and keep it in unstable for later updating.
>
> Stuart?

It depends on what you consider necessary changes. I spoke up because
I still find it useful in its current state. If you feel it is a
disservice to Debian users or too much effort to keep it around in its
current state, then yes it should be removed. It won't immediately
affect me and I'll have quite a bit of time to implement alternatives
or maybe even resurrect the upstream project.

-- 
Stuart Bishop <stuart.bishop@canonical.com>

Message #24 received at 776948@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Christoph Berg <christoph.berg@credativ.de>

To: Stuart Bishop <stuart.bishop@canonical.com>, 776948@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#776948: [Pkg-postgresql-public] Bug#776948: RM: pgtune -- ROM; upstream dead, and bad advise to be used today

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 10:00:48 +0100

Re: Stuart Bishop 2015-02-04 <CADmi=6Nfza2a1EAcGfCptF_ZGUPCt-Ju6LeC-R3enuf8AgccKw@mail.gmail.com>
> > I don't think it's possible to get the necessary amount of changes
> > into testing. What we could probably do is to just remove it from
> > testing, and keep it in unstable for later updating.
> >
> > Stuart?
> 
> It depends on what you consider necessary changes. I spoke up because
> I still find it useful in its current state. If you feel it is a
> disservice to Debian users or too much effort to keep it around in its
> current state, then yes it should be removed. It won't immediately
> affect me and I'll have quite a bit of time to implement alternatives
> or maybe even resurrect the upstream project.

Let's remove the package from Debian now, it's easy enough to get it
back in.

Christoph
-- 
cb@df7cb.de | http://www.df7cb.de/

Message #29 received at 776948-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Debian FTP Masters <ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org>

To: 776948-close@bugs.debian.org

Cc: pgtune@packages.debian.org, pgtune@packages.qa.debian.org

Subject: Bug#776948: Removed package(s) from unstable

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 13:30:49 +0000

We believe that the bug you reported is now fixed; the following
package(s) have been removed from unstable:

    pgtune |    0.9.3-3 | source, all

------------------- Reason -------------------
ROM; upstream dead, and bad advise to be used today
----------------------------------------------

Note that the package(s) have simply been removed from the tag
database and may (or may not) still be in the pool; this is not a bug.
The package(s) will be physically removed automatically when no suite
references them (and in the case of source, when no binary references
it).  Please also remember that the changes have been done on the
master archive and will not propagate to any mirrors until the next
dinstall run at the earliest.

Packages are usually not removed from testing by hand. Testing tracks
unstable and will automatically remove packages which were removed
from unstable when removing them from testing causes no dependency
problems. The release team can force a removal from testing if it is
really needed, please contact them if this should be the case.

We try to close bugs which have been reported against this package
automatically. But please check all old bugs, if they were closed
correctly or should have been re-assigned to another package.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 776948@bugs.debian.org.

The full log for this bug can be viewed at https://bugs.debian.org/776948

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