Debian Bug report logs - #750682
[php5] Experimental warning in NEWS.Debian

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Filipus Klutiero <chealer@gmail.com>

To: submit@bugs.debian.org

Subject: [php5] Experimental warning in NEWS.Debian

Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 12:36:52 -0400

Package: php5
Version: 5.6.0~beta3+dfsg-2
Severity: serious

NEWS.Debian contains the following entry:
> php5 (5.6.0~alpha1+dfsg-1) experimental; urgency=medium
>
> * THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT PREVIEW - DO NOT USE IT IN PRODUCTION!
> * PHP 5.6.0alpha1 comes with new features such as (incomplete list) :
> + constant scalar expressions,
> + variadic functions,
> + argument unpacking,
> + support for large(>2GiB) file uploads,
> + SSL/TLS improvements,
> + a new command line debugger called phpdbg.
>
> -- Ondřej Surý <ondrej@debian.org> Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:02:20 +0100

I'm not sure from what angle this should be taken. On one hand, although the version which reached testing is no longer alpha, it's still very early. The current release's announcement had a similar disclaimer: http://php.net/archive/2014.php#id2014-05-15-1

On the other hand, we have a history of aggressive PHP packaging. Even the last major version was packaged at RC stage. As far as I know/remember, that went rather well, so we might be as lucky. Alpha versions have been packaged since January.

-- 
Filipus Klutiero
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Message #10 received at 750682@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Thijs Kinkhorst" <thijs@debian.org>

To: "Filipus Klutiero" <chealer@gmail.com>, 750682@bugs.debian.org

Cc: control@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: [php-maint] Bug#750682: [php5] Experimental warning in NEWS.Debian

Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 18:48:58 +0200

severity 750682 normal
tags 750682 pending
thanks

On Thu, June 5, 2014 18:36, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> Package: php5
> Version: 5.6.0~beta3+dfsg-2
> Severity: serious
>
> NEWS.Debian contains the following entry:
>> php5 (5.6.0~alpha1+dfsg-1) experimental; urgency=medium
>>
>> * THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT PREVIEW - DO NOT USE IT IN PRODUCTION!
>> * PHP 5.6.0alpha1 comes with new features such as (incomplete list) :
>> + constant scalar expressions,
>> + variadic functions,
>> + argument unpacking,
>> + support for large(>2GiB) file uploads,
>> + SSL/TLS improvements,
>> + a new command line debugger called phpdbg.
>>
>> -- Ondřej Surý <ondrej@debian.org> Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:02:20 +0100
>
> I'm not sure from what angle this should be taken. On one hand, although
> the version which reached testing is no longer alpha, it's still very
> early. The current release's announcement had a similar disclaimer:
> http://php.net/archive/2014.php#id2014-05-15-1
>
> On the other hand, we have a history of aggressive PHP packaging. Even the
> last major version was packaged at RC stage. As far as I know/remember,
> that went rather well, so we might be as lucky. Alpha versions have been
> packaged since January.

Thanks. This message was already removed in git so it won't display on
jessie upgrades after the next upload.


Cheers,
Thijs

Message #19 received at 750682@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org>

To: Filipus Klutiero <chealer@gmail.com>, 750682@bugs.debian.org

Cc: control@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: [php-maint] Bug#750682: Bug#750682: [php5] Experimental warning in NEWS.Debian

Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 19:20:18 +0200

I am curious where the bug is here...

The message is very much still true and will be/should be removed when
upstream reach RC phase.

This should not be used in production (and that also holds for Debian
testing - it should
not be used for production).

I will not close the bug just for the sake of avoiding duplicate bug
reports,
but I see no bug here.

O.

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014, at 18:48, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote:
> severity 750682 normal
> tags 750682 pending
> thanks
> 
> On Thu, June 5, 2014 18:36, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> > Package: php5
> > Version: 5.6.0~beta3+dfsg-2
> > Severity: serious
> >
> > NEWS.Debian contains the following entry:
> >> php5 (5.6.0~alpha1+dfsg-1) experimental; urgency=medium
> >>
> >> * THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT PREVIEW - DO NOT USE IT IN PRODUCTION!
> >> * PHP 5.6.0alpha1 comes with new features such as (incomplete list) :
> >> + constant scalar expressions,
> >> + variadic functions,
> >> + argument unpacking,
> >> + support for large(>2GiB) file uploads,
> >> + SSL/TLS improvements,
> >> + a new command line debugger called phpdbg.
> >>
> >> -- Ondřej Surý <ondrej@debian.org> Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:02:20 +0100
> >
> > I'm not sure from what angle this should be taken. On one hand, although
> > the version which reached testing is no longer alpha, it's still very
> > early. The current release's announcement had a similar disclaimer:
> > http://php.net/archive/2014.php#id2014-05-15-1
> >
> > On the other hand, we have a history of aggressive PHP packaging. Even the
> > last major version was packaged at RC stage. As far as I know/remember,
> > that went rather well, so we might be as lucky. Alpha versions have been
> > packaged since January.
> 
> Thanks. This message was already removed in git so it won't display on
> jessie upgrades after the next upload.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Thijs
> 
> _______________________________________________
> pkg-php-maint mailing list
> pkg-php-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-php-maint


-- 
Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org>
Knot DNS (https://www.knot-dns.cz/) – a high-performance DNS server

Message #24 received at 750682@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Thijs Kinkhorst" <thijs@debian.org>

To: 750682@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: [php-maint] Bug#750682: Bug#750682: Bug#750682: [php5] Experimental warning in NEWS.Debian

Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 20:43:54 +0200

> I am curious where the bug is here...
>
> The message is very much still true and will be/should be removed when
> upstream reach RC phase.
>
> This should not be used in production (and that also holds for Debian
> testing - it should
> not be used for production).

Yes, testing should in princple not be used for production, but it would
get tiresome very fast if every package in testing produced warnings about
this fact. I believe that our users are more than able to judge what a
version number with "beta" in it means and whether they think it's
suitable for their use case, be it production or not.



Cheers,
Thijs

Message #29 received at 750682@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Filipus Klutiero <chealer@gmail.com>

To: Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org>, 750682@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: [php-maint] Bug#750682: Bug#750682: [php5] Experimental warning in NEWS.Debian

Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 22:10:19 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I didn't say the message is wrong. In fact, upstream uses a similar message even for release candidates. As I wrote, I didn't know from what angle this should be approached. It is certainly unacceptable for Debian 8 to ship a PHP version not ready for production. Either:

1. We consider beta3 ready for production, in which case the entry is very misleading.
2. We consider beta3 unfit for production, in which case a different version must reach testing.

I consider it excessively aggressive to replace mature PHP versions with betas, but that doesn't mean I consider betas unfit for release. I didn't test beta3 enough to say which angle is best, that's your call.

It's rather true that testing should not be used in production, but that doesn't mean one can push anything to testing. One may upload a seriously broken package to unstable, but not knowingly. By uploading a version to unstable, you're stating that you deem it fit, although it's OK if testing later disproves that.

By the way, there is no need to have such entries in the first place. People don't install from experimental by accident - if they do, they're responsible for making appropriate use. It was already clear from the version's alpha denomination that it was unfit for production. Adding an explicit mention in the changelog would have been more than enough.

On 2014-06-05 13:20, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> I am curious where the bug is here...
>
> The message is very much still true and will be/should be removed when
> upstream reach RC phase.
>
> This should not be used in production (and that also holds for Debian
> testing - it should
> not be used for production).
>
> I will not close the bug just for the sake of avoiding duplicate bug
> reports,
> but I see no bug here.
>
> O.
>
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014, at 18:48, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote:
>> severity 750682 normal
>> tags 750682 pending
>> thanks
>>
>> On Thu, June 5, 2014 18:36, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
>>> Package: php5
>>> Version: 5.6.0~beta3+dfsg-2
>>> Severity: serious
>>>
>>> NEWS.Debian contains the following entry:
>>>> php5 (5.6.0~alpha1+dfsg-1) experimental; urgency=medium
>>>>
>>>> * THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT PREVIEW - DO NOT USE IT IN PRODUCTION!
>>>> * PHP 5.6.0alpha1 comes with new features such as (incomplete list) :
>>>> + constant scalar expressions,
>>>> + variadic functions,
>>>> + argument unpacking,
>>>> + support for large(>2GiB) file uploads,
>>>> + SSL/TLS improvements,
>>>> + a new command line debugger called phpdbg.
>>>>
>>>> -- Ondřej Surý <ondrej@debian.org> Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:02:20 +0100
>>> I'm not sure from what angle this should be taken. On one hand, although
>>> the version which reached testing is no longer alpha, it's still very
>>> early. The current release's announcement had a similar disclaimer:
>>> http://php.net/archive/2014.php#id2014-05-15-1
>>>
>>> On the other hand, we have a history of aggressive PHP packaging. Even the
>>> last major version was packaged at RC stage. As far as I know/remember,
>>> that went rather well, so we might be as lucky. Alpha versions have been
>>> packaged since January.
>> Thanks. This message was already removed in git so it won't display on
>> jessie upgrades after the next upload.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Thijs
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> pkg-php-maint mailing list
>> pkg-php-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org
>> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-php-maint
>


-- 
Filipus Klutiero
http://www.philippecloutier.com

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #34 received at 750682-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ondřej Surý <ondrej@debian.org>

To: 750682-close@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#750682: fixed in php5 5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1

Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 09:45:23 +0000

Source: php5
Source-Version: 5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
php5, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive.

A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 750682@bugs.debian.org,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Ondřej Surý <ondrej@debian.org> (supplier of updated php5 package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 10:07:44 +0200
Source: php5
Binary: php5 php5-common libapache2-mod-php5 libapache2-mod-php5filter php5-cgi php5-cli php5-fpm libphp5-embed php5-dev php5-dbg php-pear php5-curl php5-enchant php5-gd php5-gmp php5-imap php5-interbase php5-intl php5-ldap php5-mcrypt php5-readline php5-mysql php5-mysqlnd php5-odbc php5-pgsql php5-pspell php5-recode php5-snmp php5-sqlite php5-sybase php5-tidy php5-xmlrpc php5-xsl
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian PHP Maintainers <pkg-php-maint@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Changed-By: Ondřej Surý <ondrej@debian.org>
Description:
 libapache2-mod-php5 - server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (Apache 2 module)
 libapache2-mod-php5filter - server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (apache 2 filter mo
 libphp5-embed - HTML-embedded scripting language (Embedded SAPI library)
 php-pear   - PEAR - PHP Extension and Application Repository
 php5       - server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (metapackage)
 php5-cgi   - server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (CGI binary)
 php5-cli   - command-line interpreter for the php5 scripting language
 php5-common - Common files for packages built from the php5 source
 php5-curl  - CURL module for php5
 php5-dbg   - Debug symbols for PHP5
 php5-dev   - Files for PHP5 module development
 php5-enchant - Enchant module for php5
 php5-fpm   - server-side, HTML-embedded scripting language (FPM-CGI binary)
 php5-gd    - GD module for php5
 php5-gmp   - GMP module for php5
 php5-imap  - IMAP module for php5
 php5-interbase - interbase/firebird module for php5
 php5-intl  - internationalisation module for php5
 php5-ldap  - LDAP module for php5
 php5-mcrypt - MCrypt module for php5
 php5-mysql - MySQL module for php5
 php5-mysqlnd - MySQL module for php5 (Native Driver)
 php5-odbc  - ODBC module for php5
 php5-pgsql - PostgreSQL module for php5
 php5-pspell - pspell module for php5
 php5-readline - Readline module for php5
 php5-recode - recode module for php5
 php5-snmp  - SNMP module for php5
 php5-sqlite - SQLite module for php5
 php5-sybase - Sybase / MS SQL Server module for php5
 php5-tidy  - tidy module for php5
 php5-xmlrpc - XML-RPC module for php5
 php5-xsl   - XSL module for php5
Closes: 750682
Changes:
 php5 (5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   [ Thijs Kinkhorst ]
   * Drop scary "DO NOT USE IT IN PRODUCTION" news entry. (Closes: #750682)
 .
   [ Ondřej Surý ]
   * New upstream version 5.6.0~beta4+dfsg
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 acb08dd08ef3bccaef91e8cda3192a6216c7480edf3a7104a20fa69e069e7a91 63788 php5-mysql_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 f7668db5e1351432377fcd5c30e9d21f326ab018446585eb43fa23a088be0639 137922 php5-mysqlnd_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 afd8fa1de7adc1fbbcb34521b2dbfd9f14c2ad3dbdbc09f877e3d1eb001eddbf 30452 php5-odbc_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 fccc762e03558ec09236bd33fecf3f0c91e6b5db61ead2969f70b1de41828bac 56100 php5-pgsql_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 e20964e5350acbe1152935cf8c0e51c86d797301607ec25ad65ba66fcb962004 8240 php5-pspell_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 8a38e7ca0edd60141440aeff71a77e2291ece2255bf97007f34477f41ee30ed5 5610 php5-recode_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 430d9b758c8bd78a9dae1d81ba8e01ad5521b84325883c40095a27aff5e779e4 19286 php5-snmp_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 c9303131d1c9bc3944c0cd76920fcc36a9dd05db3ba954ed69b5a20ce422d35a 24422 php5-sqlite_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 20cc81ad18aefc10a1a349716877e3529d3cd3308c20ca4fbe15a6b44d5c784a 24086 php5-sybase_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 912e724fc5a14ba213490c50034e7e88fb1a8e22a7cb87aa21f768f03e9bf7d3 16422 php5-tidy_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 398b9313edce8a4eca4341df319002a5c88b4189bd1f145f26a6228c598401be 35216 php5-xmlrpc_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 108c6a54c55ab1189f658966c14132f0032b7b0b057407734eff0f830631b902 13934 php5-xsl_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
Files:
 5600424cfd1c09d09a78d7f55d8a06c7 1326 php optional php5_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_all.deb
 e61f205b1f9a631d480135b6fbc50952 267258 php optional php-pear_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_all.deb
 6e19914286ea791d51a8f99bef7c6a61 223362 php optional php5-common_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 4578a9d5a443cf83514fd2780e8290b8 2158356 httpd optional libapache2-mod-php5_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 9f7cf577dc882b9346259b98ae5f864b 2159194 httpd extra libapache2-mod-php5filter_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 5b24e4b9e9299110d1ab946acc956243 4175488 php optional php5-cgi_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 a469532db7b299c81eecc64b742c9fd2 2111692 php optional php5-cli_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 6f2b3258b338fd581afea6b82a76e858 2139718 php optional php5-fpm_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 0eb362a355c08f3fba0c98bb1c51aac5 2153558 php optional libphp5-embed_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 571b2b6f90c80eb0cd232879f6c23c40 354432 php optional php5-dev_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 8dd37681f67f0692ffd260eafd685d34 30519398 debug extra php5-dbg_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 ceecf25fb0223e9ea0cb3d40ec7c680d 27446 php optional php5-curl_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 4be0697959e57254ca45eb9f4af149be 9312 php optional php5-enchant_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 e5370adc5d7622103e40352d7df4df97 28006 php optional php5-gd_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 3fffb7f349e4ba2e156c25eca10c4624 19696 php optional php5-gmp_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 a1d41e7f823a9c2585a824b5059f494d 30482 php optional php5-imap_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 8308a12ccc3857160621318cf0367fda 41628 php optional php5-interbase_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 d52bf2bb6e07481c723c242917393b7b 108780 php optional php5-intl_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 7ea1f19324cf9e9ac5cbbd64f49bacf1 21508 php optional php5-ldap_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 cf12f013cf5bb775774f9f01f1873cc1 14832 php optional php5-mcrypt_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 11556a56cfdbfeddb2a563dc1ded4c34 12240 php optional php5-readline_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 b80926273d1409840a7d3b77f90cca73 63788 php optional php5-mysql_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 fffbbec21b3d720fa86b532f51a0e5c0 137922 php extra php5-mysqlnd_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 3ff46174bdd90228f9d3d89b10201b9a 30452 php optional php5-odbc_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 9603f52d9868fba6b59865d6f1c9eaea 56100 php optional php5-pgsql_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 4f7a26f206443207f96e2891ecefce84 8240 php optional php5-pspell_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 522a37847846018e21ecc8d64f27309b 5610 php optional php5-recode_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 b4ab1714cb7d4ce1bee8ef904b8e9490 19286 php optional php5-snmp_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 740e067c37e53b8c5815c86427a97810 24422 php optional php5-sqlite_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 f2bb35bcd9246aa96268b2567cd16061 24086 php optional php5-sybase_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 747342978b96008621d707306680945f 16422 php optional php5-tidy_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 3fa7386c4b5b903263051dc772d74d68 35216 php optional php5-xmlrpc_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 bb7f2663ac697e7b5e824f4767888366 13934 php optional php5-xsl_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1_amd64.deb
 f4fa771e475fe0b134f1f90afb360978 5034 php optional php5_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1.dsc
 a3a5767c76d488eb006ef6283fa3798c 11239932 php optional php5_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg.orig.tar.xz
 48ccdf67e1fe51540c5021ef891fb56e 109624 php optional php5_5.6.0~beta4+dfsg-1.debian.tar.xz

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