Debian Bug report logs - #694163
ttytter: curl and lynx do not provide same functionality

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Package: ttytter; Maintainer for ttytter is Thijs Kinkhorst <thijs@debian.org>; Source for ttytter is src:ttytter.

Reported by: Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de>

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:06:01 UTC

Severity: normal

Found in version ttytter/2.0.1-1

Done: "Thijs Kinkhorst" <thijs@debian.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Thijs Kinkhorst <thijs@debian.org>:
Bug#694163; Package ttytter. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:06:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Thijs Kinkhorst <thijs@debian.org>. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:06:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: ttytter: curl and lynx do not provide same functionality
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 14:03:13 +0100
Package: ttytter
Version: 2.0.1-1
Severity: normal

The debian/control file ists a dependency on curl | lynx, essentially
stating that both provide the same functionality. While ttytter can
really be used with any of the two, the defaut OAuth authentication
mechanism is not supported with lynx.

I think that the package should additionally list curl as Recommends.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: wheezy/sid
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (900, 'testing'), (800, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 3.2.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

Versions of packages ttytter depends on:
ii  lynx  2.8.8dev.14-1
ii  perl  5.14.2-14

Versions of packages ttytter recommends:
ii  libterm-readline-gnu-perl  1.20-2+b1
ii  libtimedate-perl           1.2000-1

ttytter suggests no packages.

-- no debconf information



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Thijs Kinkhorst <thijs@debian.org>:
Bug#694163; Package ttytter. (Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:24:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to "Thijs Kinkhorst" <thijs@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Thijs Kinkhorst <thijs@debian.org>. (Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:24:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 694163@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Thijs Kinkhorst" <thijs@debian.org>
To: 694163@bugs.debian.org
Cc: "Dominik George" <nik@naturalnet.de>
Subject: Re: ttytter: curl and lynx do not provide same functionality
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 19:21:06 +0100
Hi Dominik,

Thank you for your suggestion.

> The debian/control file ists a dependency on curl | lynx, essentially
> stating that both provide the same functionality. While ttytter can
> really be used with any of the two, the defaut OAuth authentication
> mechanism is not supported with lynx.

> I think that the package should additionally list curl as Recommends.

I don't think listing the package in both fields would do anything
technical that would help with this issue.

I'm happy with the current situation. The expression is correct: to be
able to use ttytter in a meaningful way, both curl and lynx are
possibilities. cURL is definitely preferred for full functionality,
therefore it's listed first. Debian's tools will always pick the first
available alternative and it's generally understood that the dependencies
are listed in order of preference.


Cheers,
Thijs



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Thijs Kinkhorst <thijs@debian.org>:
Bug#694163; Package ttytter. (Fri, 30 Nov 2012 20:09:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Thijs Kinkhorst <thijs@debian.org>. (Fri, 30 Nov 2012 20:09:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 694163@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de>
To: Thijs Kinkhorst <thijs@debian.org>
Cc: 694163@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: ttytter: curl and lynx do not provide same functionality
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 21:07:09 +0100 (CET)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Thijs,

> > I think that the package should additionally list curl as Recommends.
> 
> I don't think listing the package in both fields would do anything
> technical that would help with this issue.

I think it would. See below ...

> 
> I'm happy with the current situation. The expression is correct: to be
> able to use ttytter in a meaningful way, both curl and lynx are
> possibilities. cURL is definitely preferred for full functionality,
> therefore it's listed first. Debian's tools will always pick the first
> available alternative and it's generally understood that the dependencies
> are listed in order of preference.

So far, this is right. Now, from a usability point of view, the average 
user obviously wants cURL. Seeing that ttytter won't even start up without 
complaining with only lynx installed, this is pretty clear.

Now having:

Depends: curl | lynx
Recommends: curl

would make a good point both from a linguistic and a technical point of 
view. ttytter needs either curl or lynx, but cur is definitely 
recommended. What does this mean for the user? It means that the average 
user, who has Install-Recommends enabled, gets curl, while other users, 
who cared about Install-Recommends and thus can be considered more 
advanced, get the old behaviour.

I think that the average user is more likely to have lynx installed than 
curl (correct me if I'm wrong), so this workaround would make installing 
and using ttytter a lot more convenient for them!

- -nik
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Reply sent to "Thijs Kinkhorst" <thijs@debian.org>:
You have taken responsibility. (Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:39:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. (Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:39:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 694163-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Thijs Kinkhorst" <thijs@debian.org>
To: 694163-done@bugs.debian.org
Cc: "Dominik George" <nik@naturalnet.de>
Subject: Re: ttytter: curl and lynx do not provide same functionality
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2012 17:36:45 +0100
Hi,

> > I'm happy with the current situation. The expression is correct: to be
> > able to use ttytter in a meaningful way, both curl and lynx are
> > possibilities. cURL is definitely preferred for full functionality,
> > therefore it's listed first. Debian's tools will always pick the first
> > available alternative and it's generally understood that the
> > dependencies are listed in order of preference.

> So far, this is right. Now, from a usability point of view, the average
> user obviously wants cURL. Seeing that ttytter won't even start up
> without complaining with only lynx installed, this is pretty clear.

> Now having:
>
> Depends: curl | lynx
> Recommends: curl
>
> would make a good point both from a linguistic and a technical point of
> view. ttytter needs either curl or lynx, but cur is definitely
> recommended. What does this mean for the user? It means that the average
> user, who has Install-Recommends enabled, gets curl, while other users,
> who cared about Install-Recommends and thus can be considered more
> advanced, get the old behaviour.

I'm afraid I still disagree. You say "both a linguistic and a technical
point of view". At the very least the second part is not correct, adding
that recommends makes no technical difference in the selection process of
APT and friends. From a 'linguistic' point of view, of course opinions may
differ but in Debian it's generally understood that package dependencies
are given in order of preference.

> I think that the average user is more likely to have lynx installed than
> curl (correct me if I'm wrong),

I doubt that's true. For one the popcon statistics point out that having
curl installed is much more likely than having lynx installed:
http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=curl
http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=lynx-cur
But it must also be considered that lynx is hardly a useful text mode
browser these days, and people are much more likely to have w3m or
something along those lines installed.


Cheers,
Thijs



Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:27:43 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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