Debian Bug report logs - #682698
RFP: sylkserver -- SIP and XMPP conferencing

Package: wnpp; Maintainer for wnpp is wnpp@debian.org;

Reported by: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>

Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:39:01 UTC

Severity: wishlist

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, wnpp@debian.org:
Bug#682698; Package wnpp. (Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:39:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to wnpp@debian.org. (Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:39:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>
To: submit@bugs.debian.org
Cc: saghul@gmail.com
Subject: ITP: sylkserver - SIP and XMPP conferencing
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:37:51 +0000
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>

Upstream:

   http://sylkserver.com

SylkServer is a standalone conferencing module that works with a SIP
proxy or Jabber/XMPP protocol

It is ideal for people who have an existing SIP proxy like repro
(reSIProcate) or Kamailio

It has a rich set of features: SRTP, TLS, ICE, are all supported




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, wnpp@debian.org:
Bug#682698; Package wnpp. (Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:21:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to wnpp@debian.org. (Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:21:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 682698@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>
To: 682698@bugs.debian.org
Subject: update
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:08:40 +0000

SylkServer is now in pkg-voip:

  http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-voip/sylkserver.git;a=summary

I built a 2.0.0~pre1 tarball manually for this purpose - the process is
described in README.Debian:


http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-voip/sylkserver.git;a=blob_plain;f=debian/README.Debian;hb=HEAD

squeeze only has 1.2.4 - is that sufficient?
  python-application (>= 1.2.9)

Similar issue with python-wokkel: squeeze has 0.6.3-1, definitely
need python-wokkel (>= 0.7.0)  ?

Three dependencies are not available on squeeze:

 sylkserver depends on python-backports; however:
  Package python-backports is not installed.
 sylkserver depends on python-eventlet-0.8; however:
  Package python-eventlet-0.8 is not installed.
 sylkserver depends on python-sipsimple (>= 0.20.0); however:
  Package python-sipsimple is not installed.

I found them all here:

  http://download.ag-projects.com/SipClient/

upstream has already advised that the old version of python-eventlet 0.8
must be used (squeeze has 0.9.16) - not sure about the status of the
other dependencies, to be investigated further



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, wnpp@debian.org:
Bug#682698; Package wnpp. (Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:57:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to wnpp@debian.org. (Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:57:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 682698@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>
To: 682698@bugs.debian.org
Cc: saghul@gmail.com
Subject: packaging dependencies
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 21:53:30 +0000
python-msrplib:

   http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=682710

python-xcaplib:

   http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=682711

Upstream to help merge their `python-backports' package into the Debian
source package

Upstream has forked python-eventlet 0.8, they will rename the fork and
release a tarball.  Once it is ready, the next steps will be:

a) packaging the forked eventlet code

b) packaging the python-sipsimple code:

     http://sipsimpleclient.com/

c) and then it is possible for the sylkserver package to be uploaded
into the Debian archive




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, wnpp@debian.org:
Bug#682698; Package wnpp. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:24:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to wnpp@debian.org. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:24:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 682698@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>
To: Chris.Knadle@coredump.us
Cc: 682698@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: alternatives to mumble
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:21:30 +0200

On 30/08/12 23:56, Chris Knadle wrote:
> On Thursday, August 30, 2012 14:51:06, Daniel Pocock wrote (to #682010):
>> This is not a comment in support of or against Mumble, rather, it is
>> looking beyond Mumble
>>
>> A few weeks ago I put up a wiki page about alternatives to mumble:
>>
>>    http://wiki.debian.org/AlternativesToMumble
>>
>> and I've put up an ITP (sponsor needed) for SylkServer (supports SIP,
>> Jabber and IRC conferencing)
>>
>>   http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=682698
>>
>> Ultimately, the widespread deployment of standards-based solutions (such
>> as SylkServer and others mentioned in the wiki) should eliminate any
>> need for anyone to run Mumble and then celt can be put to rest.
> 
> What originally drew me to Mumble was:
> 
>      a) it was built on Qt and has clients for Linux/Windows/Mac
>         (i.e. is cross-platform)

SIP and Jabber servers don't come with their own clients: rather, it is
choose-your-own-client (e.g. Jitsi, Empathy, Ekiga, Google Talk,
Lumicall, SipDroid, Polycom phone, etc,...)


>      b) is free-as-in-freedom software

SIP and Jabber products vary in `free'-ness.  Some are GPL, some are BSD
licensed.  Some codecs are patented (but the code is available for you
to experiment with, e.g. G.729, SILK).  Asterisk is dual-licensed, some
people don't like contributing back to such a code base.

It is possible to build 100% Free solutions though.

>      c) is encrypted for both voice and text communication (simple and
>         automatic in the user sense)

This varies.  Most Jabber servers (e.g. ejabberd) support TLS. Leading
SIP proxies (e.g. reSIProcate/repro and Kamailio) support TLS.  The
leading softphones and hardphones support SRTP and ZRTP.  They all
inter-operate.

However, there are some weaker implementations, like Asterisk, which
doesn't do client-side cert verification and has been a bit troublesome
from time to time (see the open bugs)

>      d) it has a 3D overlay for popular videogames to allow seeing
>         who is talking

This is unique to Mumble.  Some conferencing servers aim to provide
equivalent dashboards, some even allow the moderator to see things like
the wifi signal strength and latency for each participant.  I'm not sure
if any of the free ones have all of that.

>      e) it was easy to set up

That is what I've aimed to replicate with packaging repro, it is a hell
of a lot easier than deploying Asterisk.  It needs to be paired with
something like SylkServer for conferencing though - hopefully the
SylkServer packages will also be easy enough for people to get them
running in 5-10 minutes.

>      f) has ACL rules for specifying user privileges

Most SIP and Jabber products have some kind of ACL system, but they
vary.  Asterisk can do quite a lot (e.g. blocking some users from
dialing abroad), but it takes a lot more effort to learn and configure.

> I initially needed a VoIP solution for a group of gamers who were running 
> multiple platforms.  Mumble fits that need well in that there are different 
> "channels" one can join, similar to chatrooms, which can be done quickly with 
> just a couple of mouse clicks.  Mumble has no provision for making phone 
> calls, which has its pros and cons.  To connnect to a Mumble server from the 
> client, one generally only needs a single DNS name or an IP address (although 
> it's possible to change the default port and/or to require a password for 
> entry to the server).
> 
> 
> I caught your DebConf12 talk "Free (as in freedom) communications, VoIP and 
> messaging":
>  
>    http://penta.debconf.org/dc12_schedule/events/933.en.html
> 
> from this it seemed like making connections required knowing particular email 
> addresses to make connections, and I didn't see any discussion concerning 
> chatroom communications.  It's thus not immediately clear to me what the user 

This varies slightly between SIP and Jabber

Jabber has multi-user-chat (MUC), a dedicated IRC like feature.  Chat
room addresses look like email addresses.  Empathy and psi support this
using the ejabberd server (they all exist in Debian).

With both SIP and Jabber, from any client, you dial a peer that looks
like an email address.  That peer may be another real user, or it may be
an application.  A conference is such an application.  Therefore, you
could set up a conference at sip:meetme@pocock.com.au and people would
`dial' that address from any SIP device and they would be part of the
conference.  If it was served by Asterisk, it could ask for a PIN, etc.
 Other servers provide their own auth mechanisms.  FreeSWITCH can even
bridge text-to-speech from IRC into a conference.


> impact would be concerning switching from Mumble to one of the alternatives.  
> If you could give a brief description of the (general) connection and chatroom 
> choosing process of the alternatives, that would at least give me a 'gut feel' 
> for whether they might be fitting.  The alternatives are obviously more 
> versitile, but that comes with some complication on both the client and server 
> side, which raises the 'barrier-to-entry' a bit.
> 

I agree that some of the VoIP products are a pain to learn and setup

However, I'm addressing that with some of the things I'm packaging:

http://www.opentelecoms.org/federated-voip-quick-start-howto

Thanks for your feedback on these issues.  I'm familiar with the mentors
site and have brought some of my other packages through there already.
I'll let you know when SylkServer is ready to try, waiting on some
upstream tweaks before finishing off the packaging.




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, wnpp@debian.org, Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>:
Bug#682698; Package wnpp. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:27:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Chris.Knadle@coredump.us:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to wnpp@debian.org, Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:27:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 682698@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Chris Knadle <Chris.Knadle@coredump.us>
To: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>, 682698@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: alternatives to mumble
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 17:56:32 -0400
On Thursday, August 30, 2012 14:51:06, Daniel Pocock wrote (to #682010):
> This is not a comment in support of or against Mumble, rather, it is
> looking beyond Mumble
> 
> A few weeks ago I put up a wiki page about alternatives to mumble:
> 
>    http://wiki.debian.org/AlternativesToMumble
> 
> and I've put up an ITP (sponsor needed) for SylkServer (supports SIP,
> Jabber and IRC conferencing)
> 
>   http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=682698
> 
> Ultimately, the widespread deployment of standards-based solutions (such
> as SylkServer and others mentioned in the wiki) should eliminate any
> need for anyone to run Mumble and then celt can be put to rest.

What originally drew me to Mumble was:

     a) it was built on Qt and has clients for Linux/Windows/Mac
        (i.e. is cross-platform)
     b) is free-as-in-freedom software
     c) is encrypted for both voice and text communication (simple and
        automatic in the user sense)
     d) it has a 3D overlay for popular videogames to allow seeing
        who is talking
     e) it was easy to set up
     f) has ACL rules for specifying user privileges

I initially needed a VoIP solution for a group of gamers who were running 
multiple platforms.  Mumble fits that need well in that there are different 
"channels" one can join, similar to chatrooms, which can be done quickly with 
just a couple of mouse clicks.  Mumble has no provision for making phone 
calls, which has its pros and cons.  To connnect to a Mumble server from the 
client, one generally only needs a single DNS name or an IP address (although 
it's possible to change the default port and/or to require a password for 
entry to the server).


I caught your DebConf12 talk "Free (as in freedom) communications, VoIP and 
messaging":
 
   http://penta.debconf.org/dc12_schedule/events/933.en.html

from this it seemed like making connections required knowing particular email 
addresses to make connections, and I didn't see any discussion concerning 
chatroom communications.  It's thus not immediately clear to me what the user 
impact would be concerning switching from Mumble to one of the alternatives.  
If you could give a brief description of the (general) connection and chatroom 
choosing process of the alternatives, that would at least give me a 'gut feel' 
for whether they might be fitting.  The alternatives are obviously more 
versitile, but that comes with some complication on both the client and server 
side, which raises the 'barrier-to-entry' a bit.



Concerning this ITP concerning sponsorship, I suggest having a look at the 
Debian Mentors [1] page and the [debian-mentors] [2] mailing list; right now 
Wheezy is frozen and so new NEW packages are being sponsored for uploads right 
now AFAIK.

In the meantime if you've got packages ready I wouldn't mind trying them 
[assuming I cand find time to do so] to see if they'd could theoretically be a 
drop-in replacement for Mumble and to get the packages ready for sending to 
[debian-mentors] after Wheezy is released.

[1]  http://mentors.debian.net/

[2]  https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/

  -- Chris

--
Chris Knadle
Chris.Knadle@coredump.us



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, wnpp@debian.org:
Bug#682698; Package wnpp. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:33:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to wnpp@debian.org. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:33:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #30 received at 682698@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>
To: 682698@bugs.debian.org
Subject: upstream packages available
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 00:29:24 +0200


Upstream has published their own un-official Debian packages for anyone
wanting to play with this software:


  http://www.sylkserver.com/download.phtml



Changed Bug title to 'ITP: sylkserver -- SIP and XMPP conferencing' from 'ITP: sylkserver - SIP and XMPP conferencing' Request was from Raphael Geissert <atomo64@gmail.com> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sat, 01 Sep 2012 18:09:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Added blocking bug(s) of 682698: 690049 Request was from Bart Martens <bartm@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Tue, 09 Oct 2012 16:00:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, wnpp@debian.org, Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>:
Bug#682698; Package wnpp. (Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:49:27 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to wnpp@debian.org, Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>. (Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:49:27 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #39 received at 682698@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org>
To: 682698@bugs.debian.org
Cc: control@bugs.debian.org
Subject: sylkserver: changing back from ITP to RFP
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:44:10 +0200
retitle 682698 RFP: sylkserver -- SIP and XMPP conferencing
noowner 682698
tag 682698 - pending
thanks

Hi,

A long time ago, you expressed interest in packaging sylkserver. Unfortunately,
it seems that it did not happen. In Debian, we try not to keep ITP bugs open
for a too long time, as it might cause other prospective maintainers to
refrain from packaging the software.

This is an automatic email to change the status of sylkserver back from ITP
(Intent to Package) to RFP (Request for Package), because this bug hasn't seen
any activity during the last 10 months.

If you are still interested in packaging sylkserver, please send a mail to
<control@bugs.debian.org> with:

 retitle 682698 ITP: sylkserver -- SIP and XMPP conferencing
 owner 682698 !
 thanks

It is also a good idea to document your progress on this ITP from time to
time, by mailing <682698@bugs.debian.org>.  If you need guidance on how to
package this software, please reply to this email, and/or contact the
debian-mentors@lists.debian.org mailing list.

Thank you for your interest in Debian,
-- 
Lucas, for the QA team <debian-qa@lists.debian.org>



Changed Bug title to 'RFP: sylkserver -- SIP and XMPP conferencing' from 'ITP: sylkserver -- SIP and XMPP conferencing' Request was from Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:54:59 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Removed annotation that Bug was owned by Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.com.au>. Request was from Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:55:00 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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