Debian Bug report logs - #665334
non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge (currently scheduled for late 2013)

Package: fontforge; Maintainer for fontforge is Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>; Source for fontforge is src:fontforge.

Reported by: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>

Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 06:15:01 UTC

Severity: serious

Tags: squeeze-ignore, wheezy-ignore

Blocking fix for 694308: A lot of type 1 fonts include Adobe all right reserved code

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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Fri, 23 Mar 2012 06:15:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Fri, 23 Mar 2012 06:15:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: submit@bugs.debian.org
Subject: non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 02:11:39 -0400
Package: fontforge
Severity: serious

On 03/03/2012 07:48 AM, Nicholas Bamber wrote:
> We have a package libimager-perl where we have had to remove a few
> adobe-related test files as being non-DFSG. See
> http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/TONYC/Imager-0.88/adobe.txt .
>
> However given a comment in the latest version's changelog:
>
> " - note that the generator of the apparently non-DFSG-free postscript
> in MMOne.pfb is a Debian package."
>
> by which he means fontforge. I intend to email to the author and assure
> him that this is a purely precautionary measure on our part and that the
> functionality of the package is not inhibited.
>
> However since fontforge has been roped into the issue I wonder what you
> guys think.

Hi Nicholas--

Thank you for raising this issue.  I just did a bit of research to try 
to figure out what this is about.

In fontforge, it appears that this code is embedded in 
fontforge/othersubrs.c

The originals of several of these functions seem to appear (with 
non-DFSG-free licensing) in the appendices of
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/font/5015.Type1_Supp.pdf

In particular, the licensing says:

>>> This code, as well as the code in the following appendices, is copyrighted by
>>> Adobe Systems Incorporated, and may not be reproduced except by
>>> permission of Adobe Systems Incorporated. Adobe Systems Incorporated
>>> grants permission to use this code in Type 1 font programs, as long as the
>>> code is used as it appears in this document, the copyright notice remains
>>> intact, and the character outline code included in such a font program is
>>> neither copied nor derived from character outline code in any Adobe Systems
>>> font program.

This license looks pretty non-DFSG-free to me, and it applies at least 
to the makeblendedfont array in fontforge/othersubrs.c.

Even more depressing, the makeblendedfont array in othersubrs.c actually 
has a modified comment (correcting a mistakenly copy/pasted buggy 
comment from the code in the PDF!) which potentially means that it is 
itself in violation of Adobe's restrictive license.

I'm not really sure what to do about this other than to open an RC bug 
against fontforge, which this e-mail should do :(

We could probably make a new dfsg-free "clean" upstream tarball that is 
still capable of building fontforge binaries by ripping out big chunks 
of this file (i haven't tried it yet), but i don't know what that would 
do to fontforge's ability to do Type1 font generation.

Another approach would be to move fontforge from the main archive to the 
non-free archive; but it seems like that would relegate many of our font 
packages to contrib, due to build-dependencies. :(

I'm open to other suggestions; i would be overjoyed, in fact, to hear 
other suggestions.  Does anyone have any proposals?

        --dkg




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:36:46 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Fri, 13 Jul 2012 19:36:46 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>
To: 665334@bugs.debian.org
Cc: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Subject: Re: non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 11:34:26 -0600
Hi,

> We could probably make a new dfsg-free "clean" upstream tarball that is 
> still capable of building fontforge binaries by ripping out big chunks 
> of this file (i haven't tried it yet), but i don't know what that would 
> do to fontforge's ability to do Type1 font generation.
> 
> Another approach would be to move fontforge from the main archive to the 
> non-free archive; but it seems like that would relegate many of our font 
> packages to contrib, due to build-dependencies. :(
> 
> I'm open to other suggestions; i would be overjoyed, in fact, to hear 
> other suggestions.  Does anyone have any proposals?

 Have you asked to upstream to change its license to DFSG-free one?
 Nowadays Adobe seems to be a little bit friendly to opensource. 
 It's best choice if we can have it.


-- 
Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Sat, 14 Jul 2012 16:03:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sat, 14 Jul 2012 16:03:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>
Cc: 665334@bugs.debian.org, john knightley <john.knightley@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 09:52:20 -0600
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On 07/13/2012 11:34 AM, Hideki Yamane wrote:
>> We could probably make a new dfsg-free "clean" upstream tarball that is 
>> still capable of building fontforge binaries by ripping out big chunks 
>> of this file (i haven't tried it yet), but i don't know what that would 
>> do to fontforge's ability to do Type1 font generation.
>>
>> Another approach would be to move fontforge from the main archive to the 
>> non-free archive; but it seems like that would relegate many of our font 
>> packages to contrib, due to build-dependencies. :(
>>
>> I'm open to other suggestions; i would be overjoyed, in fact, to hear 
>> other suggestions.  Does anyone have any proposals?
> 
>  Have you asked to upstream to change its license to DFSG-free one?
>  Nowadays Adobe seems to be a little bit friendly to opensource. 
>  It's best choice if we can have it.

john knightley <john.knightley@gmail.com> (cc'ed here) had offered to
try to contact folks at adobe back in March, but i don't know if he did
that (or if he received the support he wanted from the group for doing
that).

john, did you speak with anyone?  Do you need anything else from us to
move this forward?

IIRC, the issue is:

 0) Adobe offered postscript code (the "makeblendedfont" function from
Adobe's Technical Specification #5015)  under a license that does not
allow modification, or reuse outside of a very specific purpose.
Additionally, the "OtherSubrs" function from Example 1 in Adobe's
Technical Specification #5014, doesn't appear to have any specific
license granted for reuse.

 1) fontforge embeds these two pieces of postscript in its source, and
replicates them into its output when it creates certain kinds of font files.

This situation does not satisfy the debian free software guidelines
because of the restrictions on modification and constraint on field of
endeavor.

If Adobe was willing to release these two functions under a more liberal
license (e.g. the BSD or MIT license) that would be a wonderful
contribution to the community.

Regards,

	--dkg

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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Sat, 04 Aug 2012 09:57:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to "Andreas Kuckartz" <A.Kuckartz@ping.de>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sat, 04 Aug 2012 09:57:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Andreas Kuckartz" <A.Kuckartz@ping.de>
To: 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Suggestion to Adobe
Date: 4 Aug 2012 11:32:14 +0200
In a comment on this page announcing the Open Source release of the font
Source Sans Pro I just suggested to Paul D. Hunt (Adobe) to have a look
at this FontSource issue:
http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html
(comment currently is awaiting moderation)

A solution of this issue would help to add Source Sans Pro to Debian
main instead of Debian contrib. See
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=683774



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Wed, 29 Aug 2012 20:09:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Wed, 29 Aug 2012 20:09:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: proposed plan to resolve fontforge non-dfsg-freeness
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 16:05:12 -0400
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Just wanted to note that in this message:

http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-fonts-devel/2012-March/009937.html

i proposed a way that we might be able to resolve the non-dfsg-free
issue with fontforge (#665334):


--------------
The code in question appears to be collected and emitted during
generation of Type1 fonts, as part of fontforge's DefaultOtherSubrs()
function.  Fontforge also allows the user to replace this data with the
OtherSubrsFile configuration.

What if we did the following:

  0) ripped out the adobe code

  1) made DefaultOtherSubrs() raise some sort of error

  2) made the UI for type1 export default to requesting an
OtherSubrsFile, and had it look in a standard place in the filesystem

  3) posted the Adobe-owned data in an OtherSubrsFile-compatible format
somewhere *not* as part of the fontforge package (for debian,
potentially in a package in non-free that placed the file in the
standard place in the filesystem)
-----------------

I haven't had time to work on this proposal, but if someone wants to
give it a shot, that would be great.

Unfortunately, i haven't seen any feedback on it specifically, so i
don't know if anyone else thinks it's feasible.

	--dkg

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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:00:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Fabian Greffrath <fabian@greffrath.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 07:00:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #30 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Fabian Greffrath <fabian@greffrath.com>
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>, 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] Bug#665334: proposed plan to resolve fontforge non-dfsg-freeness
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:00:45 +0200
Am 29.08.2012 22:05, schrieb Daniel Kahn Gillmor:
>    2) made the UI for type1 export default to requesting an
> OtherSubrsFile, and had it look in a standard place in the filesystem

How about scripted export to Type1 format?

 - Fabian





Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:48:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:48:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #35 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Fabian Greffrath <fabian@greffrath.com>, 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] Bug#665334: Bug#665334: proposed plan to resolve fontforge non-dfsg-freeness
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 11:42:03 -0400
On 08/30/2012 03:00 AM, Fabian Greffrath wrote:
> Am 29.08.2012 22:05, schrieb Daniel Kahn Gillmor:
>>    2) made the UI for type1 export default to requesting an
>> OtherSubrsFile, and had it look in a standard place in the filesystem
> 
> How about scripted export to Type1 format?

I don't think i understand your proposal, or how it fits into the
resolution for #665334.  could you explain in more detail?

	--dkg



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:06:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to "Fabian Greffrath" <fabian@greffrath.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 19:06:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #40 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Fabian Greffrath" <fabian@greffrath.com>
To: "Daniel Kahn Gillmor" <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Cc: "Fabian Greffrath" <fabian@greffrath.com>, 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] Bug#665334: Bug#665334: proposed plan to resolve fontforge non-dfsg-freeness
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:03:40 +0200
Hi Daniel,

> I don't think i understand your proposal, or how it fits into the
> resolution for #665334.  could you explain in more detail?

sorry for not making myself clear.

You proposed to modify the fontforge UI to request an OtherSubrsFile when
export fo Type1 format is selected. However, it is also possible to
convert font files into Type1 format by means of fontforge scripts, thus
without involving the UI. My question was how to handle these cases.

 - Fabian





Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:24:09 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:24:09 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #45 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Fabian Greffrath <fabian@greffrath.com>
Cc: 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] Bug#665334: Bug#665334: proposed plan to resolve fontforge non-dfsg-freeness
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:22:20 -0400
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On 08/30/2012 03:03 PM, Fabian Greffrath wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
> 
>> I don't think i understand your proposal, or how it fits into the
>> resolution for #665334.  could you explain in more detail?
> 
> sorry for not making myself clear.
> 
> You proposed to modify the fontforge UI to request an OtherSubrsFile when
> export fo Type1 format is selected. However, it is also possible to
> convert font files into Type1 format by means of fontforge scripts, thus
> without involving the UI. My question was how to handle these cases.

i suppose the function would need to take another parameter indicating
the subroutine source file (perhaps it could be optional, with a default
pointing to the same expected location in the filesystem?)

would that satisfy your concern?  I don't have a proof-of-concept, but
i'd be happy to see one cooked up :)

	--dkg

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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Fri, 31 Aug 2012 04:51:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Christian PERRIER <bubulle@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Fri, 31 Aug 2012 04:51:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #50 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Christian PERRIER <bubulle@debian.org>
To: 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] Bug#665334: Bug#665334: Bug#665334: proposed plan to resolve fontforge non-dfsg-freeness
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 06:46:32 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Just a quick note to mention that all this flies miles over my head
but I'm hapy to see that we might finally have a solution to
this.....and I will be glad to help in any way I can (which, for this
issue, summarizes to "upload what has been cooked up"......something
the dkg can do very well also).

Still, just wanted to mention that you're not alone in the dark, guys..:-)

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:24:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny@eglug.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:24:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #55 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Khaled Hosny <khaledhosny@eglug.org>
To: Fabian Greffrath <fabian@greffrath.com>, 665334@bugs.debian.org
Cc: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Subject: Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] Bug#665334: Bug#665334: Bug#665334: proposed plan to resolve fontforge non-dfsg-freeness
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 23:21:37 +0200
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 09:03:40PM +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
> 
> > I don't think i understand your proposal, or how it fits into the
> > resolution for #665334.  could you explain in more detail?
> 
> sorry for not making myself clear.
> 
> You proposed to modify the fontforge UI to request an OtherSubrsFile when
> export fo Type1 format is selected. However, it is also possible to
> convert font files into Type1 format by means of fontforge scripts, thus
> without involving the UI. My question was how to handle these cases.

There already a preference in Preferences → Generic → OtherSubrsFile,
that does exactly that. Pyhthon scripting has defaultOtherSubrs() and
readOtherSubrsFile(), the other scripting has something similar.

What is needed, I think, is a way to set a default OtherSubrsFile at
build time.

Regards,
 Khaled



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Tue, 04 Sep 2012 15:45:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Tue, 04 Sep 2012 15:45:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #60 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>
To: "665334@bugs.debian.org" <665334@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge #665334
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 08:33:25 -0700
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Given enough time, Adobe could publish the MM othersubr code under an OpenSource license. However,  although the Adobe Type Dept could  request this pretty quickly, it would take many months to actually happen  - the this will sit at the bottom of the legal groups's priority list for a long time.

I am not familiar with the context for this thread. However, it seems to me that the font forge code could simply be eliminated. This MM subrs in question is needed only for making new MM Type1 fonts, which is a bad idea. The MM format is not supported in OpenType, and over time, support for authoring with plain Type 1 fonts is getting steadily sketchier. Of course, MM Type1 fonts in existing documents will need to be supported indefintely – PDF's and fonts are forever.

- Read Roberts
Adopbe Type Dept


[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:15:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:15:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #65 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>, 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: [Pkg-fonts-devel] Bug#665334: non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge #665334
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 12:11:05 -0400
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hi Read--

Thanks for the thoughtful and helpful followup!  Comments below:

On 09/04/2012 11:33 AM, Read Roberts wrote:
> Given enough time, Adobe could publish the MM othersubr code under an OpenSource license. However,  although the Adobe Type Dept could  request this pretty quickly, it would take many months to actually happen  - the this will sit at the bottom of the legal groups's priority list for a long time.

Even if it takes a long time, this would be great.  If you're part of
the Adobe Type Dept, could you make the request internally and let us
know what its status is?

Even if it takes a long time, it would be nice to have that licensing
change done (and maybe it would encourage adobe to publish its examples
with more liberal licenses going forward as well).

> I am not familiar with the context for this thread.

You can read the background here: http://bugs.debian.org/665334 -- feel
free to ask questions if parts of the discussion aren't clear.

> However, it seems to me that the font forge code could simply be eliminated. This MM subrs in question is needed only for making new MM Type1 fonts, which is a bad idea. The MM format is not supported in OpenType, and over time, support for authoring with plain Type 1 fonts is getting steadily sketchier. Of course, MM Type1 fonts in existing documents will need to be supported indefintely – PDF's and fonts are forever.

we're leaning roughly in this direction, as described in
http://bugs.debian.org/665334 .  But as you say, these things are
"forever", and we'd like to enable people to build old fonts cleanly on
new systems if they find they need them for whatever reason.

Regards,

	--dkg

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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:00:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bastien ROUCARIES <bastien.roucaries@u-cergy.fr>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:00:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #70 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bastien ROUCARIES <bastien.roucaries@u-cergy.fr>
To: 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: [fontforge] Possible replacement
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:47:09 +0100
Package: fontforge

Please see this thread it seems that we could reimplement OtherSubrs a

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=fr&fromgroups=#!topic/comp.lang.postscript/KVEA6v8am4Q
and 
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=fr&fromgroups=#!topic/comp.lang.postscript/slZmIvTxjKQ

thanks



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:09:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bastien ROUCARIES <bastien.roucaries@u-cergy.fr>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:09:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #75 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bastien ROUCARIES <bastien.roucaries@u-cergy.fr>
To: 665334@bugs.debian.org
Subject: [fontforge] generic bug
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:03:09 +0100
control: clone -1
Control: retitle -1 A lot of type 1 fonts include Adobe all right reserved code
Control: reassign -1 generic

On my debian box they are 34 font file included adobe all right reserved code
find . -name *.pfb -exec t1disasm {} \;  | grep -i "Copyright (c) 1987-1990 Adobe Systems Incorporated." | wc
     34     238    1836

Code snippet is here;

% Copyright (c) 1987-1990 Adobe Systems Incorporated.
% All Rights Reserved.
% This code to be used for Flex and hint replacement.
% Version 1.1
[ systemdict /internaldict known
{1183615869 systemdict /internaldict get exec
/FlxProc known {save true} {false} ifelse}
{userdict /internaldict known not {
userdict /internaldict
{count 0 eq
{/internaldict errordict /invalidaccess get exec} if
dup type /integertype ne
{/internaldict errordict /invalidaccess get exec} if
dup 1183615869 eq
{pop 0}
{/internaldict errordict /invalidaccess get exec}
ifelse
}
dup 14 get 1 25 dict put
bind executeonly put
} if
1183615869 userdict /internaldict get exec
/FlxProc known {save true} {false} ifelse}
ifelse
[
systemdict /internaldict known not
{100 dict /begin cvx /mtx matrix /def cvx} if
systemdict /currentpacking known {currentpacking true setpacking} if
{
systemdict /internaldict known {
1183615869 systemdict /internaldict get exec
dup /$FlxDict known not {
dup dup length exch maxlength eq
{pop userdict dup /$FlxDict known not
{100 dict begin /mtx matrix def
dup /$FlxDict currentdict put end} if}
{100 dict begin /mtx matrix def
dup /$FlxDict currentdict put end}
ifelse
} if
/$FlxDict get begin




Changed Bug title to 'A lot of type 1 fonts include Adobe all right reserved code' from 'non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge' Request was from Bastien ROUCARIES <bastien.roucaries@u-cergy.fr> to 665334-submit@bugs.debian.org. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:09:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Bug reassigned from package 'fontforge' to 'generic'. Request was from Bastien ROUCARIES <bastien.roucaries@u-cergy.fr> to 665334-submit@bugs.debian.org. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:09:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Bug reassigned from package 'generic' to 'general'. Request was from Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:18:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org:
Bug#665334; Package general. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:21:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org. (Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:21:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #86 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
To: 665334@bugs.debian.org
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:18:03 +0100
/usr/share/fonts$ find . -name *.pfb -exec t1disasm {} \;  | grep
"Copyright (c) 1987-1990 Adobe Systems Incorporated." | wc

I get 68 file font with license problem.



Bug 665334 cloned as bug 694308 Request was from Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:45:11 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Bug reassigned from package 'general' to 'fontforge'. Request was from Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:45:11 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Changed Bug title to 'non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge' from 'A lot of type 1 fonts include Adobe all right reserved code' Request was from Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 25 Nov 2012 18:51:12 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Sun, 09 Dec 2012 14:45:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sun, 09 Dec 2012 14:45:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #97 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
To: "665334@bugs.debian.org" <665334@bugs.debian.org>
Cc: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>
Subject: Adobe font hinting
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 15:40:24 +0100
Dear read,

Any new of the relicencing effort of font hinting at adobe.

This problem is more important than we think at first time. A lot of
debian fonts are affected, even ghostscript one.

Who is the person what we should contact at adobe ?

Bastien



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:21:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:21:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #102 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
To: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>
Cc: "665334@bugs.debian.org" <665334@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Adobe font hinting
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:19:28 +0100
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com> wrote:
> Hello Bastian;
>
> I am the person would would address any problems in the Adobe 'autohint'
> program. However, I'm not sure what issue you are referencing. I have on
> file a request from Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> to make
> the MM subsrs OpenSource, so that FontForge can build MM fonts. I do plan
> to make the AFDKO OpenSource, and would include the MM subrs, as well as
> the autohint code. This is currently scheduled for late 2013, but could
> easily slip for another 6 months.


Thanks

I am talking about this code and the variant without font hinting
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_ps_code3.html
>
> Bets regards,
>  Read Roberts
>
>
>
> On 12/9/12 6:40 AM, "Bastien ROUCARIES" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Dear read,
>>
>>Any new of the relicencing effort of font hinting at adobe.
>>
>>This problem is more important than we think at first time. A lot of
>>debian fonts are affected, even ghostscript one.
>>
>>Who is the person what we should contact at adobe ?
>>
>>Bastien
>



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:36:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:36:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #107 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>
To: Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
Cc: "665334@bugs.debian.org" <665334@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Adobe font hinting
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:31:58 -0800
I see that this set of PS code that needs to be OepnSource includes all
the OtherSubrs, not just the MM OtherSubrs.

Same answer as for the OtherSubrs MM code: Sounds like a good idea to make
this OpenSource. It is not a lot of work, but the Type Dept is low on
legal resources. I will take this up within the Adobe Type Dept, and see
if we can get this done before the AFDKO goes OpenSource, which is at
least a year away.


- Read Roberts


On 12/10/12 9:19 AM, "Bastien ROUCARIES" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com> wrote:
>> Hello Bastian;
>>
>> I am the person would would address any problems in the Adobe 'autohint'
>> program. However, I'm not sure what issue you are referencing. I have on
>> file a request from Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> to make
>> the MM subsrs OpenSource, so that FontForge can build MM fonts. I do
>>plan
>> to make the AFDKO OpenSource, and would include the MM subrs, as well as
>> the autohint code. This is currently scheduled for late 2013, but could
>> easily slip for another 6 months.
>
>
>Thanks
>
>I am talking about this code and the variant without font hinting
>http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_ps_code3.html
>>
>> Bets regards,
>>  Read Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/9/12 6:40 AM, "Bastien ROUCARIES" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Dear read,
>>>
>>>Any new of the relicencing effort of font hinting at adobe.
>>>
>>>This problem is more important than we think at first time. A lot of
>>>debian fonts are affected, even ghostscript one.
>>>
>>>Who is the person what we should contact at adobe ?
>>>
>>>Bastien
>>




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:21:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:21:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #112 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>
To: Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>, "665334@bugs.debian.org" <665334@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Adobe font hinting
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:11:45 -0800
Hello Bastian;

I am the person would would address any problems in the Adobe 'autohint'
program. However, I'm not sure what issue you are referencing. I have on
file a request from Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> to make
the MM subsrs OpenSource, so that FontForge can build MM fonts. I do plan
to make the AFDKO OpenSource, and would include the MM subrs, as well as
the autohint code. This is currently scheduled for late 2013, but could
easily slip for another 6 months.

Bets regards,
 Read Roberts



On 12/9/12 6:40 AM, "Bastien ROUCARIES" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Dear read,
>
>Any new of the relicencing effort of font hinting at adobe.
>
>This problem is more important than we think at first time. A lot of
>debian fonts are affected, even ghostscript one.
>
>Who is the person what we should contact at adobe ?
>
>Bastien




Added tag(s) wheezy-ignore. Request was from Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Tue, 11 Dec 2012 11:48:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Changed Bug title to 'non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge (currently scheduled for late 2013)' from 'non-DFSG postscript embedded in fontforge' Request was from Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Tue, 14 May 2013 04:51:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Added tag(s) squeeze-ignore. Request was from Andreas Beckmann <anbe@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Wed, 06 Nov 2013 02:33:24 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:42:14 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Mon, 27 Jan 2014 20:42:14 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #123 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
To: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>
Cc: "665334@bugs.debian.org" <665334@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Adobe font hinting
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 21:41:33 +0100
Dear robert,

Any news of the font hint license problem ?

I suppose it is late.

Thank you by advance.

Bastien

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com> wrote:
> Hello Bastian;
>
> I am the person would would address any problems in the Adobe 'autohint'
> program. However, I'm not sure what issue you are referencing. I have on
> file a request from Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> to make
> the MM subsrs OpenSource, so that FontForge can build MM fonts. I do plan
> to make the AFDKO OpenSource, and would include the MM subrs, as well as
> the autohint code. This is currently scheduled for late 2013, but could
> easily slip for another 6 months.
>
> Bets regards,
>  Read Roberts
>
>
>
> On 12/9/12 6:40 AM, "Bastien ROUCARIES" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Dear read,
>>
>>Any new of the relicencing effort of font hinting at adobe.
>>
>>This problem is more important than we think at first time. A lot of
>>debian fonts are affected, even ghostscript one.
>>
>>Who is the person what we should contact at adobe ?
>>
>>Bastien
>



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Sun, 13 Apr 2014 13:15:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sun, 13 Apr 2014 13:15:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #128 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
To: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>, Dave McAllister <dmcallis@adobe.com>
Cc: "665334@bugs.debian.org" <665334@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Adobe font hinting
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 15:12:57 +0200
What is the status of the autohinting license for fonts ?

Bastien

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com> wrote:
> Hello Bastian;
>
> I am the person would would address any problems in the Adobe 'autohint'
> program. However, I'm not sure what issue you are referencing. I have on
> file a request from Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> to make
> the MM subsrs OpenSource, so that FontForge can build MM fonts. I do plan
> to make the AFDKO OpenSource, and would include the MM subrs, as well as
> the autohint code. This is currently scheduled for late 2013, but could
> easily slip for another 6 months.
>
> Bets regards,
>  Read Roberts

Any news
>
>
>
> On 12/9/12 6:40 AM, "Bastien ROUCARIES" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Dear read,
>>
>>Any new of the relicencing effort of font hinting at adobe.
>>
>>This problem is more important than we think at first time. A lot of
>>debian fonts are affected, even ghostscript one.
>>
>>Who is the person what we should contact at adobe ?
>>
>>Bastien
>



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#665334; Package fontforge. (Sun, 13 Apr 2014 16:30:38 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Fonts Task Force <pkg-fonts-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sun, 13 Apr 2014 16:30:38 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #133 received at 665334@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com>
To: Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>, Dave McAllister <dmcallis@adobe.com>
Cc: "665334@bugs.debian.org" <665334@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Adobe font hinting
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 16:29:39 +0000
I am working on this now, and the major legal hurdles have been cleared.
It may still be several months for all the paperwork to get done, but I
will have finished the development work within a week or two. Definitely
happening by August.

- Read Roberts 

On 4/13/14, 6:12 AM, "Bastien ROUCARIES" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
wrote:

>What is the status of the autohinting license for fonts ?
>
>Bastien
>
>On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Read Roberts <rroberts@adobe.com> wrote:
>> Hello Bastian;
>>
>> I am the person would would address any problems in the Adobe 'autohint'
>> program. However, I'm not sure what issue you are referencing. I have on
>> file a request from Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> to make
>> the MM subsrs OpenSource, so that FontForge can build MM fonts. I do
>>plan
>> to make the AFDKO OpenSource, and would include the MM subrs, as well as
>> the autohint code. This is currently scheduled for late 2013, but could
>> easily slip for another 6 months.
>>
>> Bets regards,
>>  Read Roberts
>
>Any news
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/9/12 6:40 AM, "Bastien ROUCARIES" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Dear read,
>>>
>>>Any new of the relicencing effort of font hinting at adobe.
>>>
>>>This problem is more important than we think at first time. A lot of
>>>debian fonts are affected, even ghostscript one.
>>>
>>>Who is the person what we should contact at adobe ?
>>>
>>>Bastien
>>




Added indication that bug 665334 blocks 694308 Request was from Samuel Bronson <naesten@gmail.com> to 694308-submit@bugs.debian.org. (Tue, 15 Apr 2014 02:54:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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