Debian Bug report logs - #603938
debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks

Package: general; Maintainer for general is debian-devel@lists.debian.org;

Reported by: Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:09:01 UTC

Severity: important

Done: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

Toggle useless messages

View this report as an mbox folder, status mbox, maintainer mbox


Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#603938; Package debian-installer. (Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:09:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>.

Your message had a Version: pseudo-header with an invalid package version:

6.0 beta1

please either use found or fixed to the control server with a correct version, or reply to this report indicating the correct version so the maintainer (or someone else) can correct it for you.

(Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:09:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.


Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>
To: submit@bugs.debian.org
Subject: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:01:29 +0100
Package: debian-installer
Version: 6.0 beta1
Severity: important


Steps to reproduce the problem:

- download debian-squeeze-di-beta1-i386-CD-1.iso
- boot it on a computer without any access to the network
- use all default options (but french localisation) until tasksel appears.

Result: only "mail server", "SSH server" and standart system are available.

Expected result: the desktop and laptop tasks are available.





Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#603938; Package debian-installer. (Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:39:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. (Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:39:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 603938@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>
To: Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>, 603938@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#603938: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:35:45 +0100
reassign 603938 general
thanks

Kjö Hansi Glaz, le Thu 18 Nov 2010 18:01:29 +0100, a écrit :
> Steps to reproduce the problem:
> 
> - download debian-squeeze-di-beta1-i386-CD-1.iso
> - boot it on a computer without any access to the network
> - use all default options (but french localisation) until tasksel appears.
> 
> Result: only "mail server", "SSH server" and standart system are available.

Unfortunately, that's "expected" result.  As discussed on

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/10/msg00311.html

the desktop task has grown quite a bit! More than what a CD can hold, in
any case.  This is not something that the Debian Installer can solve,
it's general entropy at work.

> Expected result: the desktop and laptop tasks are available.

It seems we unfortunately can't expect that any more. We can still
probably check that they fit on the 1st+2nd CDs.

Samuel




Bug reassigned from package 'debian-installer' to 'general'. Request was from Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:39:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Reply sent to Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>:
You have taken responsibility. (Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:09:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. (Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:09:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #17 received at 603938-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>
To: debian-boot@lists.debian.org, Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>, 603938-done@bugs.debian.org
Cc: Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>, debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#603938: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:06:51 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hi,

On Donnerstag, 18. November 2010, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > - download debian-squeeze-di-beta1-i386-CD-1.iso
> > - boot it on a computer without any access to the network
> > - use all default options (but french localisation) until tasksel
> > appears.
> >
> > Result: only "mail server", "SSH server" and standart system are
> > available.
>
> Unfortunately, that's "expected" result.  As discussed on

So let's close this bug. There is no need and gain to keep this bug report 
open (against general at least), CDs wont grow in size and I'm pretty sure 
the desktop install sizes wont shrink.


cheers,
	Holger
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org:
Bug#603938; Package general. (Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:36:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org. (Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:36:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #22 received at 603938@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>
To: 603938@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-boot@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#603938: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:33:01 +0100
Hi,

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010, Holger Levsen wrote:
> > > Result: only "mail server", "SSH server" and standart system are
> > > available.
> >
> > Unfortunately, that's "expected" result.  As discussed on
> 
> So let's close this bug. There is no need and gain to keep this bug report 
> open (against general at least), CDs wont grow in size and I'm pretty sure 
> the desktop install sizes wont shrink.

Ubuntu is taking steps to ensure that their desktop still fits in
a single CD (that's the reason why the changelogs are shrinked in the
ubuntu packages now, some images are recompressed, etc.).

So there are possibilities, and we can tweak the tasks and the
dependencies in some cases.

But it's probably too late for squeeze and like most tasks touching lots
of packages, it will be difficult to find someone leading such a project.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer

Follow my Debian News ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.com (English)
                      ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.fr (Français)




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org:
Bug#603938; Package general. (Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:21:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org. (Fri, 19 Nov 2010 19:21:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #27 received at 603938@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>
To: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>, 603938@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#603938: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 20:06:46 +0100
[...]
> > Result: only "mail server", "SSH server" and standart system are available.
> 
> Unfortunately, that's "expected" result.  As discussed on
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/10/msg00311.html
> 
> the desktop task has grown quite a bit! More than what a CD can hold, in
> any case.  This is not something that the Debian Installer can solve,
> it's general entropy at work.
> 
Sad to hear that. It was really handy to be able to install debian from one CD.

> > Expected result: the desktop and laptop tasks are available.
> 
> It seems we unfortunately can't expect that any more. We can still
> probably check that they fit on the 1st+2nd CDs.
> 

I think that it should then made be clear in the release notes that the 1st CD
is not enough to install a desktop anymore and that somebody having to install a
desktop without access to the network must download the two first CDs or the
first DVD.

Cheers,

K.




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org:
Bug#603938; Package general. (Fri, 19 Nov 2010 22:45:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org. (Fri, 19 Nov 2010 22:45:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #32 received at 603938@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org>
To: debian-doc@lists.debian.org
Cc: 603938@bugs.debian.org, Kjö Hansi Glaz <kjo@a4nancy.net.eu.org>
Subject: Re: Bug#603938: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 23:40:30 +0100
Kjö Hansi Glaz, le Fri 19 Nov 2010 20:06:46 +0100, a écrit :
> > > Expected result: the desktop and laptop tasks are available.
> > 
> > It seems we unfortunately can't expect that any more. We can still
> > probably check that they fit on the 1st+2nd CDs.
> > 
> 
> I think that it should then made be clear in the release notes that the 1st CD
> is not enough to install a desktop anymore and that somebody having to install a
> desktop without access to the network must download the two first CDs or the
> first DVD.

Probably, yes.

Samuel




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org:
Bug#603938; Package general. (Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:51:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org. (Sat, 20 Nov 2010 00:51:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #37 received at 603938@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>
To: 603938@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#603938: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 09:46:56 +0900
Le Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:06:51AM +0100, Holger Levsen a écrit :
> CDs wont grow in size and I'm pretty sure 
> the desktop install sizes wont shrink.

Hi all,

there is actually room for sparing a couple of megabytes, by chosing a more
efficient compression algorithm for the data tar archive in binary packages
like gimp for instance.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org:
Bug#603938; Package general. (Sat, 20 Nov 2010 14:27:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org. (Sat, 20 Nov 2010 14:27:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #42 received at 603938@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl>
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, 603938@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#603938: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 15:23:43 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 09:46:56AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:06:51AM +0100, Holger Levsen a écrit :
> > CDs wont grow in size and I'm pretty sure 
> > the desktop install sizes wont shrink.
> 
> there is actually room for sparing a couple of megabytes, by chosing a more
> efficient compression algorithm for the data tar archive in binary packages
> like gimp for instance.

Oh wow, going .gz -> .xz reduces the size in half -- and not only for
gimp-data but also for a typical ELF file.  And unlike bzip2, the cost is
paid only during compression, decompression being hardly slowed down.

Compression is significantly slower, but even on slowest architectures it is
a tiny fraction of the time needed to build.  On my cell phone compression
of large files takes ~13 sec/MB, decompression 0.3 sec/MB (gzip 0.18 sec/MB).
You can recompress arm packages on that 8 core amd64 machine nearby, too:

ar x $PKG data.tar.gz && (gzip -cdf data.tar.gz|xz >data.tar.xz) && ar d $PKG data.tar.gz && ar r $PKG data.tar.xz

Let's grossly overestimate and say that, if we include large data-only
packages, the overall build time would increase by 1%.  What would be the
gains?  HALVING[1] mirror usage, both disk and bandwidth, halving the time
it takes to download a package, halving the number of CDs, enabling desktop
users (ie, least technical) to install from a single CD, no noticeable
slowdown of dpkg runs.

Repacking the whole archive may be somewhat disruptive, but with this kind
of massive gains, I'd say it's worth it even at this time in the release
cycle.


[1]. Measured on gimp + gimp-data, I'm repacking CD1-i386 as we speak to get
a larger sample, on purpose on a slow machine to dismiss concerns about
certain systems not being able to handle this.

-- 
1KB		// Microsoft corollary to Hanlon's razor:
		//	Never attribute to stupidity what can be
		//	adequately explained by malice.
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org:
Bug#603938; Package general. (Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:15:13 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org. (Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:15:13 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #47 received at 603938@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl>
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, 603938@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#603938: debian-installer: The 1st CD doesn't contain desktop nor laptop tasks
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 17:13:44 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 03:23:43PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Oh wow, going .gz -> .xz reduces the size in half -- and not only for
> gimp-data but also for a typical ELF file.  And unlike bzip2, the cost is
> paid only during compression, decompression being hardly slowed down.
> 
> [1]. Measured on gimp + gimp-data, I'm repacking CD1-i386 as we speak to get
> a larger sample

On the whole pool/ on CD1, the gains are smaller than that -- roughly one
third, which still makes a massive difference.

-- 
1KB		// Microsoft corollary to Hanlon's razor:
		//	Never attribute to stupidity what can be
		//	adequately explained by malice.
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 19 Dec 2010 07:31:28 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Send a report that this bug log contains spam.


Debian bug tracking system administrator <owner@bugs.debian.org>. Last modified: Sat Apr 19 20:41:56 2014; Machine Name: buxtehude.debian.org

Debian Bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997,2003 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.