Debian Bug report logs - #597340
dpkg-gencontrol: implicit substvar at the end of every field

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Package: dpkg-dev; Maintainer for dpkg-dev is Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>; Source for dpkg-dev is src:dpkg.

Reported by: Raphaël Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>

Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:27:01 UTC

Severity: wishlist

Found in version dpkg/1.15.8.5

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, joeyh@debian.org, Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#597340; Package dpkg-dev. (Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:27:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Raphaël Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, joeyh@debian.org, Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:27:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Raphaël Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: dpkg-gencontrol: implicit substvar at the end of every field
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 21:23:51 +0200
Package: dpkg-dev
Version: 1.15.8.5
Severity: wishlist

Every time that debhelper needs to adjust a dependency it provides a new
substvar and the maintainer needs to put it in the right field. I was
thinking that we could avoid the second half if some specific substvars
was added at the end of every field.

dpkg-gencontrol could be modified to always append the value of
${implicit:<fieldname>} at the end of the corresponding field. Maybe
we should even support multiple substvars (say
${implicit:<fieldname>:<origin>}) so that there's no coordination problem
if multiple tools want to add something at the end of the same field.

This would even make it possible for debhelper to add dependencies that
are not at all present in debian/control, like for example Breaks... this
would have been handy for example when several dh_* tools have stopped
doing their work on the assumption that the triggerized version of
the postinst snippet was available on the system. With a break, it could
ensure that the relevant package had been upgraded...

With such a system, the ${misc:Depends} that we are currently adding
everywhere would not have been needed.

CCing -devel and Joey Hess to have some input on this idea. Do you think
it would be useful ? Do you have comments and suggestions ?

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer ◈ [Flattr=20693]

Follow my Debian News ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.com (English)
                      ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.fr (Français)




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#597340; Package dpkg-dev. (Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:48:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:48:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 597340@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
To: Raphaël Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>, 597340@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#597340: dpkg-gencontrol: implicit substvar at the end of every field
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 15:45:14 -0400
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Raphaël Hertzog wrote:
> dpkg-gencontrol could be modified to always append the value of
> ${implicit:<fieldname>} at the end of the corresponding field.

Note this would mean that for depends fields, the content of the
substvar would need to start with ", ".

> CCing -devel and Joey Hess to have some input on this idea. Do you think
> it would be useful ? Do you have comments and suggestions ?

It seems like a good idea, it would reduce clutter if misc:Depends did
not need to be manually listed. I don't know if debhelper's perl:Depends
and python:Depends could be sanely made implicit.

-- 
see shy jo
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#597340; Package dpkg-dev. (Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:54:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>. (Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:54:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 597340@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
To: hertzog@debian.org
Cc: 597340@bugs.debian.org,debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#597340: dpkg-gencontrol: implicit substvar at the end of every field
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:50:12 +0100
Raphaël Hertzog wrote:
>
>Every time that debhelper needs to adjust a dependency it provides a new
>substvar and the maintainer needs to put it in the right field. I was
>thinking that we could avoid the second half if some specific substvars
>was added at the end of every field.
>
>dpkg-gencontrol could be modified to always append the value of
>${implicit:<fieldname>} at the end of the corresponding field. Maybe
>we should even support multiple substvars (say
>${implicit:<fieldname>:<origin>}) so that there's no coordination problem
>if multiple tools want to add something at the end of the same field.
>
>This would even make it possible for debhelper to add dependencies that
>are not at all present in debian/control, like for example Breaks... this
>would have been handy for example when several dh_* tools have stopped
>doing their work on the assumption that the triggerized version of
>the postinst snippet was available on the system. With a break, it could
>ensure that the relevant package had been upgraded...
>
>With such a system, the ${misc:Depends} that we are currently adding
>everywhere would not have been needed.
>
>CCing -devel and Joey Hess to have some input on this idea. Do you think
>it would be useful ? Do you have comments and suggestions ?

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of (even more?) build-time package
settings being hidden away outside of debian/control. :-/

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"I suspect most samba developers are already technically insane... Of
 course, since many of them are Australians, you can't tell." -- Linus Torvalds




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#597340; Package dpkg-dev. (Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:18:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>. (Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:18:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 597340@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org>
To: 597340@bugs.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#597340: dpkg-gencontrol: implicit substvar at the end of every field
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:07:44 +0200
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >CCing -devel and Joey Hess to have some input on this idea. Do you think
> >it would be useful ? Do you have comments and suggestions ?
> 
> I'm uncomfortable with the idea of (even more?) build-time package
> settings being hidden away outside of debian/control. :-/

On the flip side, it means less possibilities of mistakes for debhelper
users, a simpler learning curve to newbies who don't have to know about
substvars right from the start, etc.

But I can understand your feeling and we will probably need options to
disable this behaviour in some cases.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer ◈ [Flattr=20693]

Follow my Debian News ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.com (English)
                      ▶ http://RaphaelHertzog.fr (Français)




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#597340; Package dpkg-dev. (Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:09:09 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Julien Cristau <jcristau@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Dpkg Developers <debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org>. (Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:09:09 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 597340@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Cristau <jcristau@debian.org>
To: 597340@bugs.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#597340: dpkg-gencontrol: implicit substvar at the end of every field
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:08:42 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 23:07:44 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > >CCing -devel and Joey Hess to have some input on this idea. Do you think
> > >it would be useful ? Do you have comments and suggestions ?
> > 
> > I'm uncomfortable with the idea of (even more?) build-time package
> > settings being hidden away outside of debian/control. :-/
> 
> On the flip side, it means less possibilities of mistakes for debhelper
> users, a simpler learning curve to newbies who don't have to know about
> substvars right from the start, etc.
> 
> But I can understand your feeling and we will probably need options to
> disable this behaviour in some cases.
> 
I'm at least as uncomfortable with new options as I am with new magic.
dpkg-source has way too many options already.

Cheers,
Julien
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