Debian Bug report logs - #584508
typo in in message

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ralf Treinen <treinen@debian.org>

To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: typo in in message

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 09:17:28 +0200

Package: ltsp-client-core
Version: 5.2.2-1
Severity: minor

Unpacking ltsp-client-core (from .../ltsp-client-core_5.2.2-1_amd64.deb) ...
Aborting installation.
The ltsp-client-core package provides the basic structure for an LTSP
terminal. It cannot be installed on a regular machine.


"an LISP" => "a LISP"

-Ralf.
-- System Information:
Debian Release: squeeze/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.32-trunk-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.utf8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.utf8 (charmap=UTF-8) (ignored: LC_ALL set to en_US.utf8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

Message #10 received at 584508@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>

To: Ralf Treinen <treinen@debian.org>, 584508@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: [Pkg-ltsp-devel] Bug#584508: typo in in message

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 09:37:22 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

hi,
Am Freitag, den 04.06.2010, 09:17 +0200 schrieb Ralf Treinen:
> Package: ltsp-client-core
> Version: 5.2.2-1
> Severity: minor
> 
> Unpacking ltsp-client-core (from .../ltsp-client-core_5.2.2-1_amd64.deb) ...
> Aborting installation.
> The ltsp-client-core package provides the basic structure for an LTSP
> terminal. It cannot be installed on a regular machine.
while i can confirm my bad english grammar (i originally wrote these lines in ubuntu)

> 
> "an LISP" => "a LISP"
i can not really agree with the solution... even though i'm slowly getting old and 
losing my hair and teeth its not that far that i'm starting to LISP :)

ciao
	oli

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #15 received at 584508@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>

To: Ralf Treinen <treinen@debian.org>, 584508@bugs.debian.org

Cc: debian-l10n-english@lists.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#584508: typo in in message

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 09:58:29 -0700

tags 584508 wontfix
thanks

On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 09:17:28AM +0200, Ralf Treinen wrote:
> Unpacking ltsp-client-core (from .../ltsp-client-core_5.2.2-1_amd64.deb) ...
> Aborting installation.
> The ltsp-client-core package provides the basic structure for an LTSP
> terminal. It cannot be installed on a regular machine.
> 
> 
> "an LISP" => "a LISP"

LTSP, you mean?

as i understand it, "an" is often used preceeding an acronym. as a native
english speaker, the use of "an" here definitely sounds better to my ear.

the text was reviewed by the debian-l10n-english team, perhaps they'd like to
comment.

for the moment, i'm marking as wontfix, but will eventually close it if i hear
no further objections.

live well,
  vagrant

Message #22 received at 584508@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ralf Treinen <Ralf.Treinen@pps.jussieu.fr>

To: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>

Cc: 584508@bugs.debian.org, debian-l10n-english@lists.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#584508: typo in in message

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 20:22:30 +0200

On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 09:58:29AM -0700, Vagrant Cascadian wrote:
> tags 584508 wontfix
> thanks
> 
> On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 09:17:28AM +0200, Ralf Treinen wrote:
> > Unpacking ltsp-client-core (from .../ltsp-client-core_5.2.2-1_amd64.deb) ...
> > Aborting installation.
> > The ltsp-client-core package provides the basic structure for an LTSP
> > terminal. It cannot be installed on a regular machine.
> > 
> > 
> > "an LISP" => "a LISP"
> 
> LTSP, you mean?
> 
> as i understand it, "an" is often used preceeding an acronym. as a native
> english speaker, the use of "an" here definitely sounds better to my ear.
> 
> the text was reviewed by the debian-l10n-english team, perhaps they'd like to
> comment.

I never imagined that this bug report would generate such a discussion :-)

Disclaimer: I am not a native english speaker either. AFAIK, the rule 
is purely phonetic: you replace "a" by "an" when the next word is 
pronounced starting with a vowel: "an instance, an armour, an
estimation", and so on. The interesting case is when a word's spelling
starts with a consonant, but is pronounced starting with a vowel.
For instance, "an XML document". This has nothing to do with acronym
or not, it is just due to the fact that the letter "x" in isolation is
pronounced "eks", starting with a vowel. Similar are "an s",  "an n".
Inversely, it is "a y" (just try to say out loud "an y"!)

However, this is not the case with LISP since you pronounce it as a
single word, not as "ell-ei-ess-pee". Hence: "A LISP terminal". In
case of doubt just try to pronounce the phrase.

Probably not the most critical bug for the upcoming release ...

Cheers -Ralf.
-- 
Ralf Treinen
Laboratoire Preuves, Programmes et Systèmes
Université Paris Diderot, Paris, France.
http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~treinen/

Message #27 received at 584508@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com>

To: Ralf Treinen <Ralf.Treinen@pps.jussieu.fr>

Cc: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>, 584508@bugs.debian.org, debian-l10n-english@lists.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#584508: typo in in message

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 14:05:35 -0500

Hi Ralf,

Ralf Treinen wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 09:58:29AM -0700, Vagrant Cascadian wrote:

>> LTSP, you mean?
[...]
> However, this is not the case with LISP since you pronounce it as a
> single word, not as "ell-ei-ess-pee". Hence: "A LISP terminal". In
> case of doubt just try to pronounce the phrase.

No opinions on the subject at hand.  But please notice that we are
talking about

  Linux Terminal Server Project

not

  List Processing

HTH, TIA,
Jonathan

Message #32 received at 584508-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>

To: Ralf Treinen <Ralf.Treinen@pps.jussieu.fr>, 584508-done@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#584508: typo in in message

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:29:41 -0700

> > On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 09:17:28AM +0200, Ralf Treinen wrote:
> Disclaimer: I am not a native english speaker either. AFAIK, the rule 
> is purely phonetic: you replace "a" by "an" when the next word is 
> pronounced starting with a vowel: "an instance, an armour, an
> estimation", and so on. The interesting case is when a word's spelling
> starts with a consonant, but is pronounced starting with a vowel.
> For instance, "an XML document". This has nothing to do with acronym
> or not, it is just due to the fact that the letter "x" in isolation is
> pronounced "eks", starting with a vowel. Similar are "an s",  "an n".
> Inversely, it is "a y" (just try to say out loud "an y"!)

thanks for the clarification...
 
> However, this is not the case with LISP since you pronounce it as a
> single word, not as "ell-ei-ess-pee". Hence: "A LISP terminal". In
> case of doubt just try to pronounce the phrase.

and thanks for *spelling* this out. ;)

please note the use of the letter "T", instead of the letter "I".

LTSP != LISP

LTSP *is* typically pronounced "ell-tee-ess-pee". it stands for Linux Terminal
Server Project. :P

given your excellent explanation, despite your confused (though illuminating)
example, it seems clear to me that the original use of "an" is correct. closing
this bug. :)

live well,
  vagrant

Message #37 received at 584508@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ralf Treinen <Ralf.Treinen@pps.jussieu.fr>

To: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>

Cc: 584508@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#584508: typo in in message

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 22:56:10 +0200

On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 12:29:41PM -0700, Vagrant Cascadian wrote:

> > However, this is not the case with LISP since you pronounce it as a
> > single word, not as "ell-ei-ess-pee". Hence: "A LISP terminal". In
> > case of doubt just try to pronounce the phrase.
> 
> and thanks for *spelling* this out. ;)
> 
> please note the use of the letter "T", instead of the letter "I".
> 
> LTSP != LISP

Ah OK, that explains it :-) I just want to state for my defense that
when I was young (long long time ago) there were indeed so-called
LISP terminals around (of Symbolics fame).

Sorry for the confusion -Ralf.
-- 
Ralf Treinen
Laboratoire Preuves, Programmes et Systèmes
Université Paris Diderot, Paris, France.
http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~treinen/

Message #42 received at 584508@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Justin B Rye <jbr@edlug.org.uk>

To: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>, 584508@bugs.debian.org, 584508-submitter@bugs.debian.org, debian-l10n-english@lists.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#584508: typo in in message

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 22:29:32 +0100

Ralf Treinen wrote:
> Disclaimer: I am not a native english speaker either. AFAIK, the rule
> is purely phonetic: you replace "a" by "an" when the next word is 
> pronounced starting with a vowel: "an instance, an armour, an
> estimation", and so on. The interesting case is when a word's spelling
> starts with a consonant, but is pronounced starting with a vowel.
> For instance, "an XML document". This has nothing to do with acronym
> or not, it is just due to the fact that the letter "x" in isolation is
> pronounced "eks", starting with a vowel. Similar are "an s",  "an n".
> Inversely, it is "a y" (just try to say out loud "an y"!)
>
> However, this is not the case with LISP since you pronounce it as a
> single word, not as "ell-ei-ess-pee". Hence: "A LISP terminal". In
> case of doubt just try to pronounce the phrase.

In the case of the package ltsp-client-core, it's an el tee ess pee.
Besides which, ANSI-standard Common Lisp isn't written in allcaps,
unless maybe you're calling it from FORTRAN. 

We could ensure that nobody else makes this mistake by replacing
"provides the basic structure for an LTSP terminal" with "provides
the basic structure for LTSP terminals", but I doubt there's any
point.
-- 
JBR	with qualifications in linguistics, experience as a Debian
	sysadmin, and probably no clue about this particular package

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