Debian Bug report logs - #581729
[SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs

Package: release-notes; Maintainer for release-notes is Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>;

Reported by: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>

Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 11:21:01 UTC

Severity: normal

Tags: squeeze

Done: Julien Cristau <jcristau@debian.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 11:21:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>.

Your message specified a Severity: in the pseudo-header, but the severity value whishlist was not recognised. The default severity normal is being used instead. The recognised values are: critical, grave, serious, important, normal, minor, wishlist, fixed.

(Sat, 15 May 2010 11:21:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.


Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
To: submit@bugs.debian.org
Subject: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 14:16:43 +0300
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Package: release-notes
Severity: whishlist
Tags: squeeze
X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

On Sat,15.May.10, 08:41:29, Christian PERRIER wrote:
 
> More generally speaking, this umask change probably deserves to be
> mentioned in the Release Notes....along with a good rationale about
> why, no, this isn't Debian giving up to years of being security-wise.

Suggested text:

---
The default 'umask' for new installs is changed
===============================================

Starting with base-files version 5.4 the default umask for new installs 
is 0002 instead of 0022 for regular users (system users, like the ones 
used for various daemons and services are not affected).

The new umask is more useful on systems where normal users are by 
default members of an own private group, which no other user belongs to.  
Such a scheme is known as 'User Private Groups' (UPG) and has been the 
default in Debian for several releases.

This change can however create security and/or privacy issues if the 
system administrator is not aware of it and adds users to the private 
group of another user. Also, in order to prevent security issues, some 
software will detect this and refuse to operate when there are other 
members in the user's private group and relevant files have permissions 
as created with a umask of 0002.
---

Comments welcome.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 11:30:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 15 May 2010 11:30:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>
To: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 13:26:29 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 14:16 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> for regular users
Would have to double check it,... but doesn't the current change also
affect root?


Cheers,
Chris.
[smime.p7s (application/x-pkcs7-signature, attachment)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 11:48:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 15 May 2010 11:48:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>, 581729@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 13:45:56 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hi Andrei,

On Samstag, 15. Mai 2010, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> Suggested text:

Thanks for that!

I have one small addition...:

> This change can however create security and/or privacy issues if the
> system administrator is not aware of it and adds users to the private
> group of another user. Also, in order to prevent security issues, some
> software will detect this and refuse to operate when there are other
> members in the user's private group and relevant files have permissions
> as created with a umask of 0002.

This paragraph should be accompanied by something like:

Instead of adding users to other users private groups (which has issues as 
explained above) it is recommend to create dedicated groups for these users 
for collaboration. 



As in: not only describe how not to do it, but also how to do it.

cheers,
	Holger
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Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 12:51:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Julien Valroff <julien@kirya.net>:
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Message #20 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Valroff <julien@kirya.net>
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Cc: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 14:45:54 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Le samedi 15 mai 2010 à 13:26:29 (+0200), Christoph Anton Mitterer a écrit :
> Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 13:26:29 +0200
> From: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>
> To: 581729@bugs.debian.org
> Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new
>  installs
> 
> On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 14:16 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > for regular users
> Would have to double check it,... but doesn't the current change also
> affect root?

It does:

root@gaia:~# umask
0002
root@gaia:~# cd
root@gaia:~# touch test
root@gaia:~# ls -l test
-rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 0 15 mai   14:43 test

Cheers,
Julien


-- 
Julien Valroff <julien@kirya.net>
http://www.kirya.net
GPG key: 4096R/290D20C5 
092F 4CB5 5F19 E006 1CFD  B489 D32B 8D66 290D 20C5
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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:03:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:03:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Cc: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 15:59:40 +0300
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat,15.May.10, 13:26:29, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 14:16 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > for regular users
> Would have to double check it,... but doesn't the current change also
> affect root?

By default:

# grep umask .bashrc
umask 022
#

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
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Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:15:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to julien@kirya.net:
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Message #30 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Valroff <julien@kirya.net>
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Cc: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 15:12:00 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Le samedi 15 mai 2010 à 15:59:40 (+0300), Andrei Popescu a écrit :
> Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 15:59:40 +0300
> From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
> To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> Cc: 581729@bugs.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new
>  installs
> 
> On Sat,15.May.10, 13:26:29, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> > On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 14:16 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> > > for regular users
> > Would have to double check it,... but doesn't the current change also
> > affect root?
> 
> By default:
> 
> # grep umask .bashrc
> umask 022
> #

This entry is commented by default in /usr/share/base-files/dot.bashrc

This file is simply copied to /root/.bashrc in base-file postinst script.

Cheers,
Julien

--
Julien Valroff <julien@kirya.net>
http://www.kirya.net
GPG key: 4096R/290D20C5 
092F 4CB5 5F19 E006 1CFD  B489 D32B 8D66 290D 20C5

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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:36:12 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Aaron Toponce <aaron.toponce@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:36:12 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #35 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Aaron Toponce <aaron.toponce@gmail.com>
To: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>
Cc: 581729@bugs.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 07:32:51 -0600
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On 05/15/2010 05:26 AM, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 14:16 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>> for regular users
> Would have to double check it,... but doesn't the current change also
> affect root?

This does, but root is also in his own UPG. If you add any user to the
root group (same this as using wheel on other systems), you're
effectively giving that user full root access to the system anyway. So,
this change will not have any unsavory side effects for the root user or
group.

-- 
. O .   O . O   . . O   O . .   . O .
. . O   . O O   O . O   . O O   . . O
O O O   . O .   . O O   O O .   O O O

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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:36:14 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:36:14 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #40 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Cc: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 15:34:25 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 15:59 +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> By default:
> 
> # grep umask .bashrc
> umask 022
> #
Not in the most recent version of base-files, which does not update most
of it files.

Cheers,
Chris.
[smime.p7s (application/x-pkcs7-signature, attachment)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:42:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:42:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #45 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>
To: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 15:39:32 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 07:32 -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote:
> This does, but root is also in his own UPG. If you add any user to the
> root group (same this as using wheel on other systems), you're
> effectively giving that user full root access to the system anyway. So,
> this change will not have any unsavory side effects for the root user or
> group.
I just meant, that a release notes entry should use a different wording
than "regular user"...

Cheers,
Chris.

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Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 13:45:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Aaron Toponce <aaron.toponce@gmail.com>:
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Message #50 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Aaron Toponce <aaron.toponce@gmail.com>
To: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@scientia.net>
Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, 581729@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 07:43:02 -0600
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On 05/15/2010 05:50 AM, Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 13:45 +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
>> This paragraph should be accompanied by something like:
>>
>> Instead of adding users to other users private groups (which has issues as 
>> explained above) it is recommend to create dedicated groups for these users 
>> for collaboration. 
> Perhaps I'm completely stupid,... but why do we have UPGs then at all?

User private groups are NOT intended to add other users too. That's why
it's called "private". The motivation behind creating a UPG setup was to
have more flexible group collaboration, without sacrificing security on
the system, or changing how standard UNIX permissions work. This has
been discussed already.

> For those rare cases like "a user's wife/husband" which is fully
> trusted?

Personally, I trust my wife, and have no problem adding her to my own
private group. However, it still is better to create a different group,
add both myself and her too, and use that to share the files. There may
be a time, when I am shopping online, or working on something I don't
want my wife to see, so putting her in my private group might have been
a mistake. Even if I fully trust how she'll handle those files.

-- 
. O .   O . O   . . O   O . .   . O .
. . O   . O O   O . O   . O O   . . O
O O O   . O .   . O O   O O .   O O O

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Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 15:27:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>:
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Message #55 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>
To: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 00:20:00 +0900
Le Sat, May 15, 2010 at 02:16:43PM +0300, Andrei Popescu a écrit :
> The default 'umask' for new installs is changed
> ===============================================
> 
> Starting with base-files version 5.4 the default umask for new installs 
> is 0002 instead of 0022 for regular users (system users, like the ones 
> used for various daemons and services are not affected).
> 
> The new umask is more useful on systems where normal users are by 
> default members of an own private group, which no other user belongs to.  
> Such a scheme is known as 'User Private Groups' (UPG) and has been the 
> default in Debian for several releases.
> 
> This change can however create security and/or privacy issues if the 
> system administrator is not aware of it and adds users to the private 
> group of another user. Also, in order to prevent security issues, some 
> software will detect this and refuse to operate when there are other 
> members in the user's private group and relevant files have permissions 
> as created with a umask of 0002.
> ---

Dear Andrei and DDP team,

I would like to suggest a stronger wording, that underlines that user private
groups are not designed to be shared. Also, I have not seen on -devel that the
idea of having a different umask for system and regular users has been
implemented in base-files yet. I propose to not mention this until base-files
is updated to support it.

I also propose to not mention the version of base-files where the change was
done in the release notes, since this is not relevant for stable versions.
However, I suggest that we post a very similar notice, but keeping the version
information, to the Develpers News (I will do it if nobody is faster than me).

I do not know where the announcment of the new umask default would fit the
best: in the “What's new” (major changes) section, or in the “Potential
problems”.  Or what about both?

Lastly, I mention the Securing Debian Manual below. I also have opened a bug
to update it to the latest umask default (#581753).

Have a nice week-end,

-- Charles Plessy, Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


* For “What's new” (major changes):

New default 'umask' for new installs
====================================

The default 'umask' in Debian is now 0002 instead of 0022. This change takes
only effect on fresh installations, and gives write permission to the members
of the group owning the user's files (they already had read and access
permissions with the previous default). Debian uses by default the 'User
Private Groups' (UPG) scheme (URL to wikipedia), where users are members of
their own private group, that is not shared with others. The new default
simplifies the sharing of files in other (non-private) groups.


* For “Potential problems”

New default 'umask' for new installs
====================================

The new default umask of 0002 [insert a convenience link to the “What's new”
section] can surprise people used to the previous value of 0022. If the newly
installed system is sharing its files, or if its users are copying their files
to systems that are not implementing user private groups, write access could be
inadvertently given to other group members.

Also, the user private groups should never be shared with others. Instead, a
collaboration group must be created for sets of users who want to share files.
Please refer to the Securing Debian Manual (URL to section “Setting users
umasks”) for more details.




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 15 May 2010 16:51:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 15 May 2010 16:51:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #60 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es>
To: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 18:47:40 +0200 (CEST)
On Sun, 16 May 2010, Charles Plessy wrote:

> Also, I have not seen on -devel that the idea of having a different
> umask for system and regular users has been implemented in
> base-files yet. I propose to not mention this until base-files is
> updated to support it.

The file /etc/profile is only read for login shells, or shells that
pretend to be login shells.

Do we really have to make /etc/profile more complex to deal with
system users who login to the system?

Are there any? (other than root, who already has its Private Group).

Is it ok at all that a system user does a login to the system?




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Documentation Team <debian-doc@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#581729; Package release-notes. (Sat, 01 Jan 2011 17:51:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>:
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Message #65 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>
To: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Cc: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 02:47:31 +0900
Le Sat, May 15, 2010 at 02:16:43PM +0300, Andrei Popescu a écrit :
> Package: release-notes
> Severity: whishlist
> Tags: squeeze
> X-Debbugs-CC: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> 
> On Sat,15.May.10, 08:41:29, Christian PERRIER wrote:
>  
> > More generally speaking, this umask change probably deserves to be
> > mentioned in the Release Notes....along with a good rationale about
> > why, no, this isn't Debian giving up to years of being security-wise.
> 
> Suggested text:
> 
> ---
> The default 'umask' for new installs is changed
> ===============================================
> 
> Starting with base-files version 5.4 the default umask for new installs 
> is 0002 instead of 0022 for regular users (system users, like the ones 
> used for various daemons and services are not affected).

Dear all,

because base-files does not set umask anymore since version 5.7, and because
the default umask is currently 0022 again (through login.defs and pam_umask), I
propose to close this bug. Alternatively, I can submit a patch to document the
above.

Have a nice day and a happy new year 2011.

-- 
Charles Plessy
Illkirch, France




Reply sent to Julien Cristau <jcristau@debian.org>:
You have taken responsibility. (Sat, 01 Jan 2011 18:09:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. (Sat, 01 Jan 2011 18:09:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #70 received at 581729-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Julien Cristau <jcristau@debian.org>
To: Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>, 581729-done@bugs.debian.org
Cc: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bug#581729: [SQUEEZE] Document the umask change for new installs
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 19:05:20 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sun, Jan  2, 2011 at 02:47:31 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:

> because base-files does not set umask anymore since version 5.7, and
> because the default umask is currently 0022 again (through login.defs
> and pam_umask), I propose to close this bug. Alternatively, I can
> submit a patch to document the above.
> 
Closing.

Cheers,
Julien
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Message #75 received at 581729@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Karl O. Pinc" <kop@meme.com>
To: 581729@bugs.debian.org
Subject: FYI, Debian wiki has a page on user private groups
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 11:20:14 -0600
Regarding the umask change in squeeze.

There is a Debian wiki web page on user
private groups that could be referenced if desired.

http://wiki.debian.org/UserPrivateGroup

Regards,


Karl <kop@meme.com>
Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
                 -- Robert A. Heinlein





Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Sat, 05 Feb 2011 07:32:23 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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