Debian Bug report logs - #579811
Does linking to libkcal4 really must pull kdepim-runtime ?

version graph

Package: libkcal4; Maintainer for libkcal4 is Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>; Source for libkcal4 is src:kdepimlibs.

Reported by: Regis Boudin <regis@debian.org>

Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:21:02 UTC

Severity: normal

Tags: experimental

Found in version kdepimlibs/4:4.4.2-1

Done: Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#579811; Package libkcal4. (Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:21:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Regis Boudin <regis@debian.org>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>. (Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:21:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Regis Boudin <regis@debian.org>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: Does linking to libkcal4 really must pull kdepim-runtime ?
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 01:16:59 +0200
Package: libkcal4
Version: 4:4.4.2-1
Severity: normal
Tags: experimental

Hi,

I'm the maintainer of Tellico, and I tried to build it against the coming
KDE4.4.2 from experimental. I noticed the split of the package into libraries,
which is great. However, I also noticed that they pretty much all make the
application linking to them depend on kdepim-runtime.

This pretty much seems to defeat the purpose of splitting the package, since
tellico ends up depending on kdepim-runtime, which in turn pulls akonadi-server
(and mysql-server-core as well).

Tellico is linked to libkcal and libkabc for really non-core features,
therefore it would be really nice if you could remove the dependency on kdepim-
runtime in the shlibs files, so the users don't end up pulling all the kdepim
infrastructure for an optional feature.

This abviously applies to the libraries tellico depends on, but probably to all
the other lib packages built from kdepimlibs.

Thanks,

Regis



-- System Information:
Debian Release: squeeze/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.33-2-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash

Versions of packages libkcal4 depends on:
ii  libc6                         2.10.2-7   Embedded GNU C Library: Shared lib
ii  libical0                      0.44-3     iCalendar library implementation i
ii  libkabc4                      4:4.4.2-1  library for handling address book 
ii  libkdecore5                   4:4.4.2-1  the KDE Platform Core Library
ii  libkdeui5                     4:4.4.2-1  the KDE Platform User Interface Li
ii  libkio5                       4:4.4.2-1  the Network-enabled File Managemen
ii  libkpimutils4                 4:4.4.2-1  library for dealing with email add
ii  libkresources4                4:4.4.2-1  the KDE Resource framework library
ii  libqt4-xml                    4:4.6.2-4  Qt 4 XML module
ii  libqtcore4                    4:4.6.2-4  Qt 4 core module
ii  libqtgui4                     4:4.6.2-4  Qt 4 GUI module
ii  libstdc++6                    4.5.0-2    The GNU Standard C++ Library v3

libkcal4 recommends no packages.

libkcal4 suggests no packages.

-- no debconf information




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#579811; Package libkcal4. (Sat, 01 May 2010 00:06:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 01 May 2010 00:06:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 579811@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
To: Regis Boudin <regis@debian.org>, 579811@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#579811: Does linking to libkcal4 really must pull kdepim-runtime ?
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 03:03:19 +0300
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hello,

On šeštadienis 01 Gegužė 2010 02:16:59 Regis Boudin wrote:
> I'm the maintainer of Tellico, and I tried to build it against the coming
> KDE4.4.2 from experimental. I noticed the split of the package into
> libraries, which is great. However, I also noticed that they pretty much
> all make the application linking to them depend on kdepim-runtime.
> 
> This pretty much seems to defeat the purpose of splitting the package,
> since tellico ends up depending on kdepim-runtime, which in turn pulls
> akonadi-server (and mysql-server-core as well).

This was not a purpose of splitting but rather a side effect. Our *-runtime 
stuff is still monolithic and it is complicated to split them due to lack of 
support for such configuration upstream and unpredictable effects on the end 
applications.

> Tellico is linked to libkcal and libkabc for really non-core features,
> therefore it would be really nice if you could remove the dependency on
> kdepim- runtime in the shlibs files, so the users don't end up pulling all
> the kdepim infrastructure for an optional feature.

kdepim is heading towards akonadi being mandatory. You need akonadi to access 
calendar (kcal) and addressbook (kabc) as of KDE SC 4.4. So that kdepim-
runtime injection is rather logical. What is more, could you be more specific 
which non-core features you have in mind here? It is possible to nitpick 
kdepim-runtime injection on the symbol level but we need to get those things 
right from the first try.

-- 
Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#579811; Package libkcal4. (Sat, 01 May 2010 10:24:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Regis Boudin <regis@boudin.name>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 01 May 2010 10:24:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 579811@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Regis Boudin <regis@boudin.name>
To: Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
Cc: 579811@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#579811: Does linking to libkcal4 really must pull kdepim-runtime ?
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 12:21:24 +0200
Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply.

On Sat, 2010-05-01 at 03:03 +0300, Modestas Vainius wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On šeštadienis 01 Gegužė 2010 02:16:59 Regis Boudin wrote:
> > I'm the maintainer of Tellico, and I tried to build it against the coming
> > KDE4.4.2 from experimental. I noticed the split of the package into
> > libraries, which is great. However, I also noticed that they pretty much
> > all make the application linking to them depend on kdepim-runtime.
> > 
> > This pretty much seems to defeat the purpose of splitting the package,
> > since tellico ends up depending on kdepim-runtime, which in turn pulls
> > akonadi-server (and mysql-server-core as well).
> 
> This was not a purpose of splitting but rather a side effect. Our *-runtime 
> stuff is still monolithic and it is complicated to split them due to lack of 
> support for such configuration upstream and unpredictable effects on the end 
> applications.

Ok, I don't get everything, but the whole thing seems tricky...

> > Tellico is linked to libkcal and libkabc for really non-core features,
> > therefore it would be really nice if you could remove the dependency on
> > kdepim- runtime in the shlibs files, so the users don't end up pulling all
> > the kdepim infrastructure for an optional feature.
> 
> kdepim is heading towards akonadi being mandatory. You need akonadi to access 
> calendar (kcal) and addressbook (kabc) as of KDE SC 4.4. So that kdepim-
> runtime injection is rather logical. What is more, could you be more specific 
> which non-core features you have in mind here? It is possible to nitpick 
> kdepim-runtime injection on the symbol level but we need to get those things 
> right from the first try.

Tellico is a collection manager. It is linked to libkcal/libkabc because
it is possible to mark an item as lent to someone, who can be picked
from the KDE address book, and to add to the calendar the date at which
they should be returned. So definitely not a core feature, and tellico
has been working with KDE 4 and without akonadi for some time now.

Thanks

Regis





Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#579811; Package libkcal4. (Sat, 01 May 2010 10:57:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 01 May 2010 10:57:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 579811@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
To: Regis Boudin <regis@boudin.name>
Cc: 579811@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#579811: Does linking to libkcal4 really must pull kdepim-runtime ?
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 13:54:50 +0300
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hello,

On šeštadienis 01 Gegužė 2010 13:21:24 Regis Boudin wrote:
> Tellico is a collection manager. It is linked to libkcal/libkabc because
> it is possible to mark an item as lent to someone, who can be picked
> from the KDE address book, and to add to the calendar the date at which
> they should be returned.

So it does access KDE address book and calendar. And now comes the news: you 
like or not, as of KDE SC 4.4, akonadi MUST be installed and running in order 
for the user to be able to access KDE address book or calendar.

> So definitely not a core feature, and tellico
> has been working with KDE 4 and without akonadi for some time now.

As I said before, KDE 4 is changing and akonadi gets more and more integrated 
with each new major release. KDE SC 4.4 is the point, when you like it or not, 
akonadi is mandatory to access KDE address book and calendar at runtime from 
any application. So kdepim-runtime is a valid runtime dependency.

So your problem is really about Tellico packaging. I can only suggest two ways 
to solve it:

1) Split off KDE integration into separate binary package (recommended);
2) Pass -xkdepim-runtime to dpkg-shlibdeps and put kdepim-runtime to 
Recommends/Suggests manually.

And finally, please reassign this bug to yourself :) I don't see how we can 
help you here.

-- 
Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#579811; Package libkcal4. (Sat, 01 May 2010 12:06:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Regis Boudin <regis@boudin.name>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian-qt-kde@lists.debian.org>. (Sat, 01 May 2010 12:06:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 579811@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Regis Boudin <regis@boudin.name>
To: Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
Cc: 579811@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#579811: Does linking to libkcal4 really must pull kdepim-runtime ?
Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 14:01:53 +0200
Hi,

On Sat, 2010-05-01 at 13:54 +0300, Modestas Vainius wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On šeštadienis 01 Gegužė 2010 13:21:24 Regis Boudin wrote:
> > Tellico is a collection manager. It is linked to libkcal/libkabc because
> > it is possible to mark an item as lent to someone, who can be picked
> > from the KDE address book, and to add to the calendar the date at which
> > they should be returned.
> 
> So it does access KDE address book and calendar.

Yeah, it seems upstream didn't decide to link against kdepim libraries
for no reason.

>  And now comes the news: you 
> like or not, as of KDE SC 4.4, akonadi MUST be installed and running in order 
> for the user to be able to access KDE address book or calendar.

It can. I have some news for you, too. I've never used that feature,
most tellico users haven't either. It is really a minor feature that can
be disabled at build-time.

> > So definitely not a core feature, and tellico
> > has been working with KDE 4 and without akonadi for some time now.
> 
> As I said before, KDE 4 is changing and akonadi gets more and more integrated 
> with each new major release. KDE SC 4.4 is the point, when you like it or not, 
> akonadi is mandatory to access KDE address book and calendar at runtime from 
> any application. So kdepim-runtime is a valid runtime dependency.

I understand that Akonadi is mandatory to access the address book and calendar,
but having such access is really not mandatory for tellico to be perfectly usable.
It is a collection manager, not a loan manager.

> So your problem is really about Tellico packaging. I can only suggest two ways 
> to solve it:
> 
> 1) Split off KDE integration into separate binary package (recommended);

splitting off KDE integration from a KDE application might be tricky...
Just splitting off kdepim integration means intrusive changes to the
code, which upstream might not want to merge, that I'm not willing to
maintain myself, and that I'm not sure I could stabilise in time for the
release.

> 2) Pass -xkdepim-runtime to dpkg-shlibdeps and put kdepim-runtime to 
> Recommends/Suggests manually.

or 3) Disable completely kdepim integration completely...

I will go for the dpkg-shlibdeps override. People who will want to use that
feature will most probably have the actually required applications installed
(kaddressbook, korganiser), which I might add as suggests.

> And finally, please reassign this bug to yourself :) I don't see how we can 
> help you here.

Yeah, not much help, here... If you think the bug is not relevant,
please close it.

Regis





Reply sent to Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>:
You have taken responsibility. (Sat, 01 May 2010 12:36:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to Regis Boudin <regis@debian.org>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. (Sat, 01 May 2010 12:36:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #30 received at 579811-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
To: Regis Boudin <regis@boudin.name>, 579811-done@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#579811: Does linking to libkcal4 really must pull kdepim-runtime ?
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 15:32:41 +0300
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hello,

On šeštadienis 01 Gegužė 2010 15:01:53 Regis Boudin wrote:
> Yeah, not much help, here... If you think the bug is not relevant,
> please close it.

Proceeding


-- 
Modestas Vainius <modestas@vainius.eu>
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 30 May 2010 07:30:45 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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