Debian Bug report logs - #561045
RFP: binutils-arm -- The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets

Package: wnpp; Maintainer for wnpp is wnpp@debian.org;

Reported by: Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>

Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:09:08 UTC

Severity: wishlist

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, <wnpp@debian.org>:
Bug#561045; Package wnpp. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:09:11 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, <wnpp@debian.org>. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:09:11 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: ITP: binutils-arm -- The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:47:43 +0100
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>

* Package name    : binutils-arm
  Version         : 2.20
  Upstream Author : Numerous Authors (see CVS below)
* URL             : http://sourceware.org/binutils/
* License         : GPL and LGPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description     : The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets

The programs in this package are used to manipulate binary and object
files that may have been created for the ARM architecture.  This
package is primarily for ARM developers and cross-compilers and is
not needed by normal users or developers.

---

This package is the first step towards a full cross-compilation
toolchain for the arm-none-eabi target.

It will be built using the binutils-source package, in a manner
analogous than what is done with binutils-avr.




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
Bug#561045; Package wnpp. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:06:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:06:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 561045@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com>
To: Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>, 561046@bugs.debian.org, 561045@bugs.debian.org, 561044@bugs.debian.org, 561043@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian embedded <debian-embedded@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Bug#561046: ITP: gcc-arm -- The GNU C Compiler (cross-compiler for ARM targets)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:04:41 +0100
Hello Nicolas,

2009/12/14 Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
> * Package name    : gcc-arm
>  Version         : 4.4.2
>  Upstream Author : Numerous (see gcc-4.4-source package)

  The cross compiler set can be built (in a different variant from
yours) from gcc and friends package sources. Emdebian.org has been
providing this sets for a while.

  A similar ITP was filled (in case you were not aware) a while back,
#553685, #553687, #553684, #553683, #553682, #553679.

 In order to keep GPL compliant, dak needs to be taught (if not
already) how to keep -source build-deps arround for autobuilders.

  If you are interested on this topic I highly recommend you to join
debian-embedded@l.d.o, have a look to CategoryEmdebian at wiki.d.o and
join #emdebian/irc.debian.org.

  This group (debian-embedded) is working towards a nicer integration
of tools within a framework easing embedded development.

  Exotic cross compilers are planned to be kept out of debian, most
likely debian-ports.org or emdebian.org

  Kind regards,
-- 
 Héctor Orón

"Our Sun unleashes tremendous flares expelling hot gas into the Solar
System, which one day will disconnect us."




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
Bug#561045; Package wnpp. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:27:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:27:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 561045@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org>
To: Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>, 561045@bugs.debian.org, debian-embedded@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#561045: ITP: binutils-arm -- The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:25:10 +0100
On 14.12.2009 00:47, Nicolas Dandrimont wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Nicolas Dandrimont<nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>
>
> * Package name    : binutils-arm
>    Version         : 2.20
>    Upstream Author : Numerous Authors (see CVS below)
> * URL             : http://sourceware.org/binutils/
> * License         : GPL and LGPL
>    Programming Lang: C
>    Description     : The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets
>
> The programs in this package are used to manipulate binary and object
> files that may have been created for the ARM architecture.  This
> package is primarily for ARM developers and cross-compilers and is
> not needed by normal users or developers.
>
> ---
>
> This package is the first step towards a full cross-compilation
> toolchain for the arm-none-eabi target.
>
> It will be built using the binutils-source package, in a manner
> analogous than what is done with binutils-avr.

how is this effort related to the emdebian effort to build cross toolchains and 
provide a somewhat generic framework to manage cross toolchains? please 
coordinate with the emdebian project before uploading.

  Matthias




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, <wnpp@debian.org>:
Bug#561045; Package wnpp. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:15:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <wnpp@debian.org>. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:15:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 561045@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>
To: Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com>, Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org>
Cc: 561046@bugs.debian.org, 561045@bugs.debian.org, 561044@bugs.debian.org, 561043@bugs.debian.org, Debian Embedded <debian-embedded@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Bug#561046: ITP: gcc-arm -- The GNU C Compiler (cross-compiler for ARM targets)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 03:01:00 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hi Hector, Matthias and debian-embedded team,

Replying to Hector's email should also address Matthias' concerns, so
here goes:

* Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com> [2009-12-14 02:04:41 +0100]:

> Hello Nicolas,
> 
> 2009/12/14 Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
> > * Package name    : gcc-arm
> >  Version         : 4.4.2
> >  Upstream Author : Numerous (see gcc-4.4-source package)
> 
>   The cross compiler set can be built (in a different variant from
> yours) from gcc and friends package sources. Emdebian.org has been
> providing this sets for a while.
>
>   A similar ITP was filled (in case you were not aware) a while back,
> #553685, #553687, #553684, #553683, #553682, #553679.

Emdebian seems to focus on embedded Linux targets. However, the
packages I am currently making aim at raw targets (well,
`arm-none-eabi' instead of `arm-linux-gnueabi'). This toolchain would
be an equivalent of the current *-avr toolchain, but for ARM
chips. Maybe the name and description of the packages I intend to make
should be made clearer.

>  In order to keep GPL compliant, dak needs to be taught (if not
> already) how to keep -source build-deps arround for autobuilders.

Hmm. This is a problem I read about but I totally forgot. I re-read
the 'Bits from the FTPMaster meeting'[1], in which Joerg says that
work is underway, but I can't seem to find any bug-report (well, on
the `ftp.debian.org' pseudopackage) keeping track of progress on this
matter.

[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2009/11/msg00001.html

>   If you are interested on this topic I highly recommend you to join
> debian-embedded@l.d.o, have a look to CategoryEmdebian at wiki.d.o and
> join #emdebian/irc.debian.org.
> 
>   This group (debian-embedded) is working towards a nicer integration
> of tools within a framework easing embedded development.
> 
>   Exotic cross compilers are planned to be kept out of debian, most
> likely debian-ports.org or emdebian.org

I already had a look at the Emdebian documentation, but as it focused
on either porting Debian or cross-compiling specifically for Linux
targets, I went ahead and filed those ITPs for the main debian
archive. I was comforted by the presence of the avr toolchain in main.

Indeed, if you think emdebian is the right place for those packages,
I'll be happy to maintain them under its umbrella.

Thank you for your interest,
-- 
Nicolas Dandrimont

NB: I'm subscribed to the debian-embedded@l.d.o mailing list, so no
need to Cc: me back on replies to the list.

"...Deep Hack Mode--that mysterious and frightening state of
consciousness where Mortal Users fear to tread."
(By Matt Welsh)
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
Bug#561045; Package wnpp. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:03:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:03:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 561045@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com>
To: 561045@bugs.debian.org, 561044@bugs.debian.org, 561043@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Bug#561046: ITP: gcc-arm -- The GNU C Compiler (cross-compiler for ARM targets)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:00:35 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Resend to the rest of bug numbers

2009/12/14  <hector.oron@gmail.com>:
> Hello Nicolas,
>
> 2009/12/14 Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
>>
>> Emdebian seems to focus on embedded Linux targets. However, the
>> packages I am currently making aim at raw targets (well,
>> `arm-none-eabi' instead of `arm-linux-gnueabi'). This toolchain would
>> be an equivalent of the current *-avr toolchain, but for ARM
>> chips. Maybe the name and description of the packages I intend to make
>> should be made clearer.
>
> How 'arm-none-eabi' differ from 'arm-linux-gnueabi' besides C library? Can
> 'arm-linux-gnueabi' be used in most 'arm-none-eabi' use cases? Are you
> thinking on using sysroot for this tool (multiarch orthogonal)? Do you have
> a plan to integrate libraries and headers someway (we use dpkg-cross for
> this) or is this similar to 'none header compiler' (first bootstrap
> compiler)?
>
>> I already had a look at the Emdebian documentation, but as it focused
>> on either porting Debian or cross-compiling specifically for Linux
>> targets, I went ahead and filed those ITPs for the main debian
>> archive. I was comforted by the presence of the avr toolchain in main.
>
> Emdebian is a group of people. This group tries to dignify Debian to be used
> for embedded targets (not fork, nor port). There are many tools (scratchbox,
> qemu, cross toolchains, apt-cross, dpkg-cross, emdebian-{tools, rootfs,
> grip, *}) emdebian people is working on.
>
> Currently, avr, mingw32 and z80 tools (maybe some others) are in the main
> archive, but those were uploaded without any coherence in mind (afaict) and
> these tools might need to be adapted to newer layouts (see multiarch[1][2]
> or upstream sysroot -which depends on modifying dpkg-cross-) or removed from
> the archive.
> We also should *keep in mind not to polute Debian main with a bunch of
> crossgcc-tools* for each individual case (which could grow up to hundreds
> different configurations) but to have a distribution crosstoolchain (built
> in most cases and when possible with Debian defaults)
>
>> Indeed, if you think emdebian is the right place for those packages,
>> I'll be happy to maintain them under its umbrella.
>
> All those packages, but newlib, are already packaged [3][4] in two different
> ways and a third one might arise. Do you also have them packaged? If you
> already have them packaged, please submit your packaging in you want
> comments on them.
>
> Tomorrow, there is an IRC meeting[5] which you are invited to, in case you
> want to participate.
>
> [1] http://www.ubuntu.org/MultiarchSpec
> [2] http://www.ubuntu.org/MultiarchCross
> [3] see README.Cross in binutils and gcc packages
> [4] http://emdebian.org/git/buildcross.git ||
> https://launchpad.net/~lool/+archive/ppa
> [5] http://wiki.debian.org/Emdebian/Meetings
>
> --
> Héctor Orón
>
> "Our Sun unleashes tremendous flares expelling hot gas into the Solar
> System, which one day will disconnect us."
>
>
>



-- 
 Héctor Orón

"Our Sun unleashes tremendous flares expelling hot gas into the Solar
System, which one day will disconnect us."
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, attachment)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
Bug#561045; Package wnpp. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:33:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bill Gatliff <bgat@billgatliff.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:33:08 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #30 received at 561045@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bill Gatliff <bgat@billgatliff.com>
To: Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>
Cc: Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com>, Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org>, 561046@bugs.debian.org, 561045@bugs.debian.org, 561044@bugs.debian.org, 561043@bugs.debian.org, Debian Embedded <debian-embedded@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Bug#561046: ITP: gcc-arm -- The GNU C Compiler (cross-compiler for ARM targets)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:30:14 -0600
Nicolas Dandrimont wrote:
> I already had a look at the Emdebian documentation, but as it focused
> on either porting Debian or cross-compiling specifically for Linux
> targets, I went ahead and filed those ITPs for the main debian
> archive. I was comforted by the presence of the avr toolchain in main.
>
> Indeed, if you think emdebian is the right place for those packages,
> I'll be happy to maintain them under its umbrella.
>   

I don't think that emdebian is the right direction for your package,
although there are certainly many parallels to what they are trying to
do.  The approach used by the AVR toolchain is more seems more appropriate.

What are your plans for a runtime library?  Newlib might be a good
choice, since there are already source and HC11 packages.  I haven't
looked at the details of the avr-libc package to see what they are doing.

Finally, you might should specify whether you are "binutils-armel" or
"binutils-armeb" instead of the more generic "binutils-arm", since the
latter architecture was deprecated for Debian.


b.g.

-- 
Bill Gatliff
bgat@billgatliff.com





Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
Bug#561045; Package wnpp. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:21:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <wnpp@debian.org>, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>. (Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:21:07 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #35 received at 561045@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Hector Oron <hector.oron@gmail.com>
To: Bill Gatliff <bgat@billgatliff.com>
Cc: Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>, Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org>, 561046@bugs.debian.org, 561045@bugs.debian.org, 561044@bugs.debian.org, 561043@bugs.debian.org, Debian Embedded <debian-embedded@lists.debian.org>
Subject: Re: Bug#561046: ITP: gcc-arm -- The GNU C Compiler (cross-compiler for ARM targets)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:18:33 +0100
Hello,

2009/12/14 Bill Gatliff <bgat@billgatliff.com>:
>> How 'arm-none-eabi' differ from 'arm-linux-gnueabi' besides C library?
>> Can 'arm-linux-gnueabi' be used in most 'arm-none-eabi' use cases?
>
> It is technically possible to use an arm-linux toolchain where one would
> normally use an arm-none toolchain.  But there are subtle differences
> between the two at the library interface level, I have found that the
> *-linux toolchain tends to depend on library functions that bare-metal
> systems often don't have.
>
> It's also a matter of clarity for developers.  "Why would I want a
> *-linux toolchain, I'm not building for a Linux target".

But if technically speaking, they both offer same resources for
developers, it does not make me any sense to duplicate the archive.

>> Emdebian is a group of people. This group tries to dignify Debian to
>> be used for embedded targets (not fork, nor port). There are many
>> tools (scratchbox, qemu, cross toolchains, apt-cross, dpkg-cross,
>> emdebian-{tools, rootfs, grip, *}) emdebian people is working on.
>
> Yes, and they are all fabulous.  Particularly if you are trying to
> manage Debian in cross-platform environments.  But they aren't
> particularly optimal for what the OP is trying to accomplish, which is
> to produce a toolchain that can be used as a starting point for a
> bare-metal application.

This is like a first stage toolchain, which it is in the toolchain
roadmap (as bootstrapping toolchain). Then we can have eglibc, uclibc
or other C libraries based toolchains.

> I like the idea of having cross toolchain packages that are "sociable"
> with the Debian system.  However, that really isn't a consideration for
> a binutils-arm-none toolchain: its work products are by definition not
> compatible with Debian--- or even Linux.  So the concerns for this
> situation come down to making sure that his packaging approach is
> consistent with other Debian packages for non-Debian toolchains, AFAICT.

I think I missed this point on binutils-arm-none. But binutils does
not depend on linux nor C library. binutils-armel can be shared among
(eglibc,uclibc,newlib,...) toolchains.

-- 
 Héctor Orón

"Our Sun unleashes tremendous flares expelling hot gas into the Solar
System, which one day will disconnect us."




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, wnpp@debian.org, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>:
Bug#561045; Package wnpp. (Sat, 19 Feb 2011 18:15:35 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to wnpp@debian.org, Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>. (Sat, 19 Feb 2011 18:15:35 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #40 received at 561045@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org>
To: 561045@bugs.debian.org
Cc: control@bugs.debian.org
Subject: binutils-arm: changing back from ITP to RFP
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:06:45 +0000
retitle 561045 RFP: binutils-arm -- The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets
noowner 561045
thanks

Hi,

This is an automatic email to change the status of binutils-arm back from ITP
(Intent to Package) to RFP (Request for Package), because this bug hasn't seen
any activity during the last 6 months.

If you are still interested in adopting binutils-arm, please send a mail to
<control@bugs.debian.org> with:

 retitle 561045 ITP: binutils-arm -- The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets
 owner 561045 !
 thanks

However, it is not recommended to keep ITP for a long time without acting on
the package, as it might cause other prospective maintainers to refrain from
packaging that software. It is also a good idea to document your progress on
this ITP from time to time, by mailing <561045@bugs.debian.org>.

Thank you for your interest in Debian,
-- 
Lucas, for the QA team <debian-qa@lists.debian.org>




Changed Bug title to 'RFP: binutils-arm -- The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets' from 'ITP: binutils-arm -- The GNU assembler, linker and binary utilities for ARM targets' Request was from Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sat, 19 Feb 2011 18:26:47 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Removed annotation that Bug was owned by Nicolas Dandrimont <nicolas.dandrimont@crans.org>. Request was from Lucas Nussbaum <lucas@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sat, 19 Feb 2011 18:26:48 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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