Debian Bug report logs - #560323
debconf: document the fact that the TITLE command is deprecated

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>

To: Debian BTS Submit <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: debconf: document the fact that the TITLE command is deprecated

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:17:35 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Package: debconf
Version: 1.5.28
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

During Debian Installer installations logs frequently show the warning that 
the TITLE command is deprecated, but this is currently not documented in 
the debconf-devel man page.

Attached a proposed patch to fix this.

[debconf.patch (text/x-diff, inline)]

diff -ur debconf-1.5.28.orig/doc/man/debconf-devel.7 debconf-1.5.28/doc/man/debconf-devel.7
--- debconf-1.5.28.orig/doc/man/debconf-devel.7	2009-12-10 13:59:58.000000000 +0100
+++ debconf-1.5.28/doc/man/debconf-devel.7	2009-12-10 14:13:12.000000000 +0100
@@ -266,17 +266,21 @@
 replies for you.
 .RE
 .TP
-.B TITLE string
-This sets the title debconf displays to the user. You rarely need to use
-this command since debconf can automatically generate a title based on
-your package's name.
-.TP
 .B SETTITLE question
-This sets the title to the short description of the template for the
-specified question. The template should be of type title. The advantage
-this has over the TITLE command is that it allows for titles to be stored
-in the same place as the rest of the debconf questions, and allows them to
-be translated.
+.RS
+This sets the title debconf displays to the user, using the short description
+of the template for the specified question. The template should be of type
+title. You rarely need to use this command since debconf can automatically
+generate a title based on your package's name.
+.P
+Setting the title from a template means they are stored in the same place
+as the rest of the debconf questions, and allows them to be translated.
+.RE
+.TP
+.B TITLE string
+This sets the title debconf displays to the user to the specified string.
+This command is deprecated and may be removed in the future; the SETTITLE
+command should be used instead.
 .TP
 .B INPUT priority question
 .RS

Message #10 received at 560323@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

To: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>, 560323@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#560323: debconf: document the fact that the TITLE command is deprecated

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:37:37 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Frans Pop wrote:
> During Debian Installer installations logs frequently show the warning that 
> the TITLE command is deprecated, but this is currently not documented in 
> the debconf-devel man page.

But is TITLE actually deprecated? The warning message is printed by
cdebconf, not debconf. In d-i, this makes some sense, as TITLE cannot be
localised in that environment (unless the string comes in via passthrough).
In Debian though, TITLE can be localised using gettext, and there's nothing
really wrong with doing so.

Also, note that the debconf specification in policy has not yet been updated
to document SETTITLE.

-- 
see shy jo

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Message #15 received at 560323@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>

To: 560323@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#560323: debconf: document the fact that the TITLE command is deprecated

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:03:45 +0100

On Thursday 10 December 2009, you wrote:
> But is TITLE actually deprecated? The warning message is printed by
> cdebconf, not debconf. 

Yes, I found out that this is more a cdebconf issue than a debconf one 
after filing the bug.

OTOH, shouldn't the protocols be the same for both packages, especially 
with a view to the planned changeover from debconf to cdebconf for the 
installed system?

> In d-i, this makes some sense, as TITLE cannot be localised in that
> environment 

Well, in principle you could even workaround that if SETTITLE wasn't 
available:
   db_metaget <some text template> description
   db_title $RET

> (unless the string comes in via passthrough).

And that is exactly where most "obsolete command" warnings currently come 
from :-/

> In Debian though, TITLE can be localised using gettext, and there's
> nothing really wrong with doing so. 

In theory yes. But today I filed a few bugs against packages using db_title 
in maintainer scripts to set hardcoded dialog titles that really should 
have been translatable.

From that PoV deprecating TITLE makes sense as it forces developers to use 
SETTITLE and therefore do the right thing regarding translations.

But if you feel there are valid use cases for TITLE I'm not against keeping 
it, but in that case I think the deprecation warning in cdebconf should be 
removed. I think D-I developers are sufficiently aware of translation 
issues that they'll not use it.

Cheers,
FJP

Message #20 received at 560323@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

To: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>, 560323@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#560323: debconf: document the fact that the TITLE command is deprecated

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 16:29:33 -0500

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Frans Pop wrote:
> > (unless the string comes in via passthrough).
> 
> And that is exactly where most "obsolete command" warnings currently come 
> from :-/

And most of _those_ in turn are probably due to debconf communicating the
default titles it sets ("Configuring <package>"), not due to a package
calling TITLE. IIRC at least.

Maybe passthrough could use SETITLE for that, rather than TITLE. It
would have to send along info about a pretend template that had a
description consiing of the title value. Not sure about namespace issues
for that, etc.

> In theory yes. But today I filed a few bugs against packages using db_title 
> in maintainer scripts to set hardcoded dialog titles that really should 
> have been translatable.
> 
> From that PoV deprecating TITLE makes sense as it forces developers to use 
> SETTITLE and therefore do the right thing regarding translations.

From my grepping, a lintian test for "db_title <hardcoded string here>"
would be useful.

> But if you feel there are valid use cases for TITLE I'm not against keeping 
> it, but in that case I think the deprecation warning in cdebconf should be 
> removed. I think D-I developers are sufficiently aware of translation 
> issues that they'll not use it.

I have no problem with removing that warning.

-- 
see shy jo

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Message #25 received at 560323@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>

To: 560323@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#560323: debconf: document the fact that the TITLE command is deprecated

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:05:30 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Thursday 10 December 2009, Joey Hess wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > > (unless the string comes in via passthrough).
> >
> > And that is exactly where most "obsolete command" warnings currently
> > come from :-/
>
> And most of _those_ in turn are probably due to debconf communicating
> the default titles it sets ("Configuring <package>"), not due to a
> package calling TITLE.

Right.

> Maybe passthrough could use SETITLE for that, rather than TITLE. It
> would have to send along info about a pretend template that had a
> description consiing of the title value. Not sure about namespace issues
> for that, etc.

There's a comment about that in the passthrough code, but just removing the 
warning solves the problem as well.
Using TITLE in the passthrough frontend does seem natural enough. As long 
as we're keeping TITLE I see no real reason to make things more complex.

> From my grepping, a lintian test for "db_title <hardcoded string here>"
> would be useful.

Agreed. I'll file a bug report.
Although there will be false positives (htdig for example has a string that 
needs no translation), and even a variable can contain an untranslated 
string of course.

> > But if you feel there are valid use cases for TITLE I'm not against
> > keeping it, but in that case I think the deprecation warning in
> > cdebconf should be removed. I think D-I developers are sufficiently
> > aware of translation issues that they'll not use it.
>
> I have no problem with removing that warning.

Done.

How about the attached modified patch then? Instead of warning that TITLE 
is deprecated, it now explains why SETTITLE is normally to be preferred.

[debconf.patch (text/x-diff, inline)]

diff -ur debconf-1.5.28.orig/doc/man/debconf-devel.7 debconf-1.5.28/doc/man/debconf-devel.7
--- debconf-1.5.28.orig/doc/man/debconf-devel.7	2009-12-10 13:59:58.000000000 +0100
+++ debconf-1.5.28/doc/man/debconf-devel.7	2009-12-10 14:13:12.000000000 +0100
@@ -266,17 +266,21 @@
 replies for you.
 .RE
 .TP
-.B TITLE string
-This sets the title debconf displays to the user. You rarely need to use
-this command since debconf can automatically generate a title based on
-your package's name.
-.TP
 .B SETTITLE question
-This sets the title to the short description of the template for the
-specified question. The template should be of type title. The advantage
-this has over the TITLE command is that it allows for titles to be stored
-in the same place as the rest of the debconf questions, and allows them to
-be translated.
+.RS
+This sets the title debconf displays to the user, using the short description
+of the template for the specified question. The template should be of type
+title. You rarely need to use this command since debconf can automatically
+generate a title based on your package's name.
+.P
+Setting the title from a template means they are stored in the same place
+as the rest of the debconf questions, and allows them to be translated.
+.RE
+.TP
+.B TITLE string
+This sets the title debconf displays to the user to the specified string.
+Use of the SETTITLE command is normally to be preferred as it allows for
+translation of the title.
 .TP
 .B INPUT priority question
 .RS

Message #32 received at 560323@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>

To: 560323@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#560323: debconf: document the fact that the TITLE command is deprecated

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:12:09 +0100

On Thursday 10 December 2009, Joey Hess wrote:
> Also, note that the debconf specification in policy has not yet been
> updated to document SETTITLE.

I've submitted a patch to add it (#560411).

The spec probably could do with a general review. One thing I noted is that 
the description for the "text" type could mention that it's useful for 
text fragments dynamically included in other templates.

The described use of the "text" type were maybe best deprecated.

Message #37 received at 560323@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Frans Pop <elendil@planet.nl>

To: 560323@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#560323: debconf: document the fact that the TITLE command is deprecated

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:36:11 +0100

On Friday 11 December 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
> The spec probably could do with a general review. One thing I noted is
> that the description for the "text" type could mention that it's useful
> for text fragments dynamically included in other templates.

OTOH, problem with the text type is that we have to force the whole string 
into the short description.

So it may be even better to define a new type for that usage that returns 
the full description as a single string, but including blank lines. Not 
sure whether to allow the text to start in the short description, or to 
define that the short description should be left empty.

Message #42 received at 560323-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>

To: 560323-close@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#560323: fixed in debconf 1.5.29

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:35:28 +0000

Source: debconf
Source-Version: 1.5.29

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
debconf, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive:

debconf-doc_1.5.29_all.deb
  to main/d/debconf/debconf-doc_1.5.29_all.deb
debconf-english_1.5.29_all.deb
  to main/d/debconf/debconf-english_1.5.29_all.deb
debconf-i18n_1.5.29_all.deb
  to main/d/debconf/debconf-i18n_1.5.29_all.deb
debconf-utils_1.5.29_all.deb
  to main/d/debconf/debconf-utils_1.5.29_all.deb
debconf_1.5.29.dsc
  to main/d/debconf/debconf_1.5.29.dsc
debconf_1.5.29.tar.gz
  to main/d/debconf/debconf_1.5.29.tar.gz
debconf_1.5.29_all.deb
  to main/d/debconf/debconf_1.5.29_all.deb



A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 560323@bugs.debian.org,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> (supplier of updated debconf package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing ftpmaster@debian.org)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:51:30 +0000
Source: debconf
Binary: debconf debconf-i18n debconf-english debconf-doc debconf-utils
Architecture: source all
Version: 1.5.29
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debconf Developers <debconf-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Changed-By: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
Description: 
 debconf    - Debian configuration management system
 debconf-doc - debconf documentation
 debconf-english - small footprint English-only debconf
 debconf-i18n - full internationalization support for debconf
 debconf-utils - debconf utilities
Closes: 551945 556275 558085 558659 559500 560323 563577 566954 568368 568976 569254 570345 571680 573053 573057 573122 573124 573195 573202 573867 573984 574573 574759
Changes: 
 debconf (1.5.29) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   [ Programs translation update ]
   * Bulgarian (Damyan Ivanov). Closes: #558085
   * German (Helge Kreutzmann)
   * Portuguese (Miguel Figueiredo). Closes: #569254
   * Hebrew (Lior Kaplan).
   * Japanese (Kenshi Muto). Closes: #573057
   * Finnish (Tommi Vainikainen). Closes: #573053
   * Vietnamese (Clytie Siddall). Closes: #573122
   * Polish (Marcin Owsiany). Closes: #573124
   * Russian (Yuri Kozlov). Closes: #573195
   * Czech (Miroslav Kure). Closes: #573984
   * Asturian (Marcos).
   * Dutch (Frans Pop).
   * Swedish (Daniel Nylander).
   * Khmer (Khoem Sokhem).
   * Bengali (Md. Rezwan Shahid).
   * Indonesian (Parlin Imanuel).
   * Catalan (Guillem Jover).
   * Esperanto (Felipe Castro).
   * Traditional Chinese (Kan-Ru Chen).
 .
   [ Manpage translation updates ]
   * French (Florentin Duneau). Closes: #573867
   * German (Helge Kreutzmann)
   * Russian (Yuri Kozlov). Closes: #556275, #573202
 .
   [ Debconf translations ]
   * Bengali (Sadia Afroz).
   * Italian (Milo Casagrande). Closes: #559500
   * Norwegian Bokmål (Hans Fredrik Nordhaug).  Closes: #558659
   * Swedish (Martin Bagge).  Closes: #551945
   * Simplified Chinese (苏运强).
   * Thai (Theppitak Karoonboonyanan).  Closes: #568368
   * Vietnamese (Clytie Siddall).  Closes: #568976
   * Gujarati (Kartik Mistry).  Closes: #571680
   * Slovenian (Vanja Cvelbar).  Closes: #570345
 .
   [ Joey Hess ]
   * debconf-devel(7): Note why SETTITLE is generally used rather than TITLE.
     Closes: #560323 (Thanks, Frans Pop)
   * DbDriver::File: Open file read-write so exclusive flock locking can be
     done portably. Fixes issue on Solaris. (Thanks, James Lee)
     Closes: #563577
   * Prevent dialog from escaping "\n" to a liternal newline in the text
     it displays by doing some tricky things with UTF-8 zero-width characters.
     Closes: #566954 (Thanks, Ben Hutchings)
 .
   [ Colin Watson ]
   * Build for Python 2.6. Closes: #574759
 .
   [ Joey Hess ]
   * Clean up use of POSIX perl module, which exports a large amount
     of stuff by default. Closes: #574573
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