Debian Bug report logs - #509640
ltsp-server: confusing out of the box experience

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Package: ltsp-server; Maintainer for ltsp-server is Debian LTSP Maintainers <team+ltsp@tracker.debian.org>; Source for ltsp-server is src:ltsp (PTS, buildd, popcon).

Reported by: Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>

Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:54:01 UTC

Severity: normal

Fixed in version ltsp/5.1.73-1

Done: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#509640; Package ltsp-server. (Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:54:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Acknowledgement sent to Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Wed, 24 Dec 2008 01:54:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: ltsp-server: confusing out of the box experience
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:51:40 -0800
Package: ltsp-server
Severity: normal

I just installed this package, and there were a lot of things that seemed odd or confusing.

The reference to /opt in the package installation and man
ltsp-build-client seemed odd, because Debian doesn't use that (not
sure abou FHS).  I thought the defaults when I ran it would be
different, but they weren't.

No /etc/ltsp directory was created by the installation.  I created it
and made ltsp-build-client.conf:

dist=testing
mirror=debian.betterworld.us
base=/var/ltsp

This was a guess; I found no syntax specification for the file.  The
man page seems to imply the command-line options can go in the file
("If present, defaults will be read from the configuration  file
/etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf, and will be overridden by using the
command line options."), but it didn't work.

It's not clear to me to what extent I need an lts.conf with the
parameters in /usr/share/doc/lts-parameters.txt.gz if the server is
the machine I'm building on.  Also, is the config file lts.conf (as it
says in the parameter file) or ltsp.conf?

I'm not using 192.169.168.0.1; again, it's not clear to me exactly
what I need to change, or if it's detected automatically (QuickInstall
says if you change IP addresses you should run ltsp-update-sshkeys,
but doesn't mention anything else--and I'm not changing anything).

man ltsp-build-client uncertainties:
Does this need to be run as root? (yes)

Do "mirrors," "packages", and "distribution" refer to the usual Debian
things of that name, or is it some upstream concept? (apparently
Debian)

If I change base do I need to tweak the clients, or is that automatic?

To try to summarize what I think would help:
1. build an /etc/ltsp directory and populate it with sample config
files, if appropriate (that is, if packages are supposed to create
their /etc/ directories).
2. Change the default chroot to something more Debianny,
e.g. /var/ltsp if appropriate (policy consistent).
3. Provide more of an overview.
4. Provide more details in the man pages, including the format of the
configuration files (I found ltsp.conf configuration on the web, but
nothing for the builder).
5. Use ltsp consistently for file names (or lts).

There's probably a lot I'm misunderstanding, but it would be nice if
it were easier to understand :)

I'm also a little puzzled that both nbd-server and a tftpd server are
necessary (and an nfs server), though I'm willing to take it on faith.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 5.0
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (990, 'stable'), (50, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.26-1-686 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#509640; Package ltsp-server. (Wed, 24 Dec 2008 18:57:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Acknowledgement sent to Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Wed, 24 Dec 2008 18:57:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Message #10 received at 509640@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>
To: Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>, 509640@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#509640: ltsp-server: confusing out of the box experience
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:55:37 -0800
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 05:51:40PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> I just installed this package, and there were a lot of things that seemed odd
> or confusing.

thanks for your report!
 
> The reference to /opt in the package installation and man
> ltsp-build-client seemed odd, because Debian doesn't use that (not
> sure abou FHS).  I thought the defaults when I ran it would be
> different, but they weren't.

arguably, according to the FHS ltsp should probably be installed in /srv,
though when LTSP was first developed, /srv didn't even exist. all other LTSP
implementations use /opt/ltsp, so we decided to stick with it for Debian.

though really, i don't think /opt/ltsp is so off regarding the FHS:

  /opt : Add-on application software packages

  Purpose

  /opt is reserved for the installation of add-on application software packages.

  A package to be installed in /opt must locate its static files in a separate /
  opt/<package> or /opt/<provider> directory tree, where <package> is a name that
  describes the software package and <provider> is the provider's LANANA
  registered name.

> No /etc/ltsp directory was created by the installation.  I created it
> and made ltsp-build-client.conf:
> 
> dist=testing
> mirror=debian.betterworld.us
> base=/var/ltsp
> 
> This was a guess; I found no syntax specification for the file.  The
> man page seems to imply the command-line options can go in the file
> ("If present, defaults will be read from the configuration  file
> /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf, and will be overridden by using the
> command line options."), but it didn't work.

good guess without any documentation, though they're actually upper case: DIST,
MIRROR and BASE. also note that according to the manpage you need to use
file:/// or http:// URL. you've already filed a bug report on the issue with
setting DIST to testing; it relies on valid codenames from debootstrap.
 
> It's not clear to me to what extent I need an lts.conf with the
> parameters in /usr/share/doc/lts-parameters.txt.gz if the server is
> the machine I'm building on.  Also, is the config file lts.conf (as it
> says in the parameter file) or ltsp.conf?

it is in fact lts.conf (due to decisions made years and years ago upstream),
and it is only used in the chroot, not on the server itself.

with ltsp5, lts.conf is entirely optional.
 
> I'm not using 192.169.168.0.1; again, it's not clear to me exactly
> what I need to change, or if it's detected automatically (QuickInstall
> says if you change IP addresses you should run ltsp-update-sshkeys,
> but doesn't mention anything else--and I'm not changing anything).

recommended documentation for debian is:

  http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto

you'll need to edit your DHCP configuration to reflect your network settings,
and ltsp-update-sshkeys should run whenever you bring an interface up, so that
should be covered.
 
> man ltsp-build-client uncertainties:
> Does this need to be run as root? (yes)

> Do "mirrors," "packages", and "distribution" refer to the usual Debian
> things of that name, or is it some upstream concept? (apparently
> Debian)

do you have some proposed text you would like to see added to the man page for
the above two items?

> If I change base do I need to tweak the clients, or is that automatic?

the client doesn't need to know anything about the base location, however, some
of the server tools (ltsp-update-sshkeys, ltsp-update-kernels) may need to be
explicitly told to use the alternate locations. using an alternate base
location is not well tested, and there are likely bugs.

> To try to summarize what I think would help:
> 1. build an /etc/ltsp directory and populate it with sample config
> files, if appropriate (that is, if packages are supposed to create
> their /etc/ directories).

i would consider doing such with /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples, but i'm
not going to populate /etc/ with configuration files unless they're actually
needed to function properly, as the defaults work without them.

> 2. Change the default chroot to something more Debianny,
> e.g. /var/ltsp if appropriate (policy consistent).

again, i think /opt is not inappropriate according to FHS, even if /srv is more
appropriate.  but there is a huge amount of and cross-distro consistancy and
documentation lost by switching that location.

> 3. Provide more of an overview.

where do you think an overview belongs? is http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
insufficient?

> 4. Provide more details in the man pages, including the format of the
> configuration files (I found ltsp.conf configuration on the web, but
> nothing for the builder).

they're all NAME=value pairs, though a brief overview in the manpages
would be a good idea, it would be hard to write in a distro-agnostic
way, as the relevent values would be totally different. so i might just
stick with example configuration files.

> 5. Use ltsp consistently for file names (or lts).

lts.conf is kept as is for historical consistancy, everything else uses "ltsp".

> There's probably a lot I'm misunderstanding, but it would be nice if
> it were easier to understand :)

it always is, yes. :)
 
> I'm also a little puzzled that both nbd-server and a tftpd server are
> necessary (and an nfs server), though I'm willing to take it on faith.

tftp is needed to boot with PXE, nbd-server is needed to provide network swap,
and nfs-kernel-server is used for the root filesystem.

i hope these explanations help. i'll try and address some of the issues, though
probably post-lenny, as we're in freeze.

live well,
  vagrant




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#509640; Package ltsp-server. (Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:27:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Acknowledgement sent to Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:27:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Message #15 received at 509640@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>
To: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>
Cc: RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org, 509640@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#509640: ltsp-server: confusing out of the box experience
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 11:25:37 -0800
On Wed, 2008-12-24 at 10:55 -0800, Vagrant Cascadian wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 05:51:40PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > I just installed this package, and there were a lot of things that seemed odd
> > or confusing.
> 
> thanks for your report!
>  
> > The reference to /opt in the package installation and man
> > ltsp-build-client seemed odd, because Debian doesn't use that (not
> > sure abou FHS).  I thought the defaults when I ran it would be
> > different, but they weren't.
> 
> arguably, according to the FHS ltsp should probably be installed in /srv,
> though when LTSP was first developed, /srv didn't even exist. all other LTSP
> implementations use /opt/ltsp, so we decided to stick with it for Debian.
One practical problem with /opt is that, since it didn't exit, it ended
up on my small root partition, which then filled.  I suspect that may be
pretty typical, at least for those who don't just use one giant
partition for everything.

My suspicion is there's some reason Debian packages don't seem to
use /opt, but I'm no authority.
....
> > man ltsp-build-client uncertainties:
> > Does this need to be run as root? (yes)
> 
> > Do "mirrors," "packages", and "distribution" refer to the usual Debian
> > things of that name, or is it some upstream concept? (apparently
> > Debian)
> 
> do you have some proposed text you would like to see added to the man page for
> the above two items?
> 
For the first, "This command must be run as root." (if that's true).
For the others, maybe just insert "Debian" before the word, and give an
example.  For "package", maybe use "package name" to clarify that it's
"ltsp-server" not "ltsp-server_5.1.10-2_all.deb".

> > If I change base do I need to tweak the clients, or is that automatic?
> 
> the client doesn't need to know anything about the base location, however, some
> of the server tools (ltsp-update-sshkeys, ltsp-update-kernels) may need to be
> explicitly told to use the alternate locations. using an alternate base
> location is not well tested, and there are likely bugs.
> 
> > To try to summarize what I think would help:
> > 1. build an /etc/ltsp directory and populate it with sample config
> > files, if appropriate (that is, if packages are supposed to create
> > their /etc/ directories).
> 
> i would consider doing such with /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples, but i'm
> not going to populate /etc/ with configuration files unless they're actually
> needed to function properly, as the defaults work without them.
By samples, I meant files with comments, including commented out
configuration statements.  I didn't mean "live" statements that might
not be appropriate.  This could be in place of or in addition to a
fuller man page (though I think the man page is always a good idea,
since people can delete the file with comments).
> 
> > 2. Change the default chroot to something more Debianny,
> > e.g. /var/ltsp if appropriate (policy consistent).
> 
> again, i think /opt is not inappropriate according to FHS, even if /srv is more
> appropriate.  but there is a huge amount of and cross-distro consistancy and
> documentation lost by switching that location.
> 
> > 3. Provide more of an overview.
> 
> where do you think an overview belongs? 
In /usr/share/doc/.
> is http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
> insufficient?
That was helpful when I found it.  It would also be helpful if it
included a description of the different packages and how they fit
together, e.g., the roles of the different servers (dhcp, tftp, nbd,
nfs, inet).

More info on the construction of the chroot would be good too.

One step further back, the basic setup this is aiming for would be
useful.  I'm slowly realizing it's aiming for something different from
what I was intending.  I wanted to have the remote computer act as an X
terminal that had an X server and little else: it would get the login
screen from kdm running on my server.  So after login it would be
running on my server (except for the X server itself).  I think ltsp is
setting up something different, in which the X terminal is running
inside the chroot + some writable space served by nbd.
> 
> > 4. Provide more details in the man pages, including the format of the
> > configuration files (I found ltsp.conf configuration on the web, but
> > nothing for the builder).
> 
> they're all NAME=value pairs, though a brief overview in the manpages
> would be a good idea, 
also, do the values need to be quoted? are there comments?
> it would be hard to write in a distro-agnostic
> way, 
Do you mean the values for NAME (e.g., BASE) are distro dependent, or
the values on the right of the assignment are distro dependent?
> as the relevent values would be totally different. so i might just
> stick with example configuration files.
I thought ltsp was intended to be customized for each distro.
> 
> > 5. Use ltsp consistently for file names (or lts).
> 
> lts.conf is kept as is for historical consistancy, everything else uses "ltsp".
> 
> > There's probably a lot I'm misunderstanding, but it would be nice if
> > it were easier to understand :)
> 
> it always is, yes. :)
>  
> > I'm also a little puzzled that both nbd-server and a tftpd server are
> > necessary (and an nfs server), though I'm willing to take it on faith.
> 
> tftp is needed to boot with PXE, nbd-server is needed to provide network swap,
> and nfs-kernel-server is used for the root filesystem.
> 
> i hope these explanations help. i'll try and address some of the issues, though
> probably post-lenny, as we're in freeze.
Terrific.

By the way, after doing everything, the client hung up after contacting
the tftp server.  The tftp server appears to be responsive from other
clients on the network, so I'm not sure if this is a result of something
else being off (I've done nothing to setup nbd, and there was a warning
message about its not having a config file on install), or if the PXE
boot ROM program I'm using (from http://rom-o-matic.net/) isn't working.
The harware rom doesn't support PXE, nor can I get it to boot from a CD.

Merry Christmas!
Ross




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#509640; Package ltsp-server. (Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:15:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Acknowledgement sent to Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:15:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Message #20 received at 509640@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>
To: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>
Cc: RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org, 509640@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#509640: ltsp-server: confusing out of the box experience [typo]
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:11:36 -0800
On Thu, 2008-12-25 at 11:25 -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> > arguably, according to the FHS ltsp should probably be installed
> in /srv,
> > though when LTSP was first developed, /srv didn't even exist. all
> other LTSP
> > implementations use /opt/ltsp, so we decided to stick with it for
> Debian.
> One practical problem with /opt is that, since it didn't exit, it
Should be "exist" not "exit".
>  ended
> up on my small root partition, which then filled.  I suspect that may
> be
> 





Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#509640; Package ltsp-server. (Mon, 11 May 2009 20:00:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Acknowledgement sent to Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Mon, 11 May 2009 20:00:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Message #25 received at 509640@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>
To: Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>, 509640@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#509640: ltsp-server: confusing out of the box experience
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:55:41 -0700
tags 509640 pending
thanks

On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 11:25:37AM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-12-24 at 10:55 -0800, Vagrant Cascadian wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 05:51:40PM -0800, Ross Boylan wrote:

apologies for the slow response...

hope to include some of the following fixes in the next upload.  it may
not address all issues mentioned. if there is anything remaining, please
file specific bug reports about each issue.

in the future, please make separate bug reports for each specific issue, as it
takes much longer to process a single bug report with many issues than to
address each issue one at a time.

> > > The reference to /opt in the package installation and man
> > > ltsp-build-client seemed odd, because Debian doesn't use that (not
> > > sure abou FHS).  I thought the defaults when I ran it would be
> > > different, but they weren't.
> > 
> > arguably, according to the FHS ltsp should probably be installed in /srv,
> > though when LTSP was first developed, /srv didn't even exist. all other LTSP
> > implementations use /opt/ltsp, so we decided to stick with it for Debian.

> One practical problem with /opt is that, since it didn't exit, it ended
> up on my small root partition, which then filled.  I suspect that may be
> pretty typical, at least for those who don't just use one giant
> partition for everything.
> 
> My suspicion is there's some reason Debian packages don't seem to
> use /opt, but I'm no authority.

i'm going to leave it as /opt/ltsp, as it doesn't seem *wrong* according to FHS
as i read it, and /srv is probably the only other appropriate location
according to FHS. /srv would suffer from the small / partition problem, too.

for consistancy with 10+ years of /opt/ltsp/, and consistancy with other
distros (and upstream documentation), i'd prefer to leave it as /opt/ltsp.

if you have more convincing arguments about why it should default to somewhere
else, please file a separate bug report.

> > > man ltsp-build-client uncertainties:
> > > Does this need to be run as root? (yes)
> > 
> > > Do "mirrors," "packages", and "distribution" refer to the usual Debian
> > > things of that name, or is it some upstream concept? (apparently
> > > Debian)
> > 
> > do you have some proposed text you would like to see added to the man page for
> > the above two items?
> > 
> For the first, "This command must be run as root." (if that's true).

for the most part, this is true. although users can run it to get a list of
help output. "This command is usually run as root." would probably be more
appropriate. added to the upstream man page.

> For the others, maybe just insert "Debian" before the word, and give an
> example.  

i removed most of the debian-specific stuff from the upstream manpage. the
--help and --extra-help options are able to display and describe all available
commandline options, and the manpage directs the user to --help and
--extra-help. i hope that is sufficient.

> For "package", maybe use "package name" to clarify that it's
> "ltsp-server" not "ltsp-server_5.1.10-2_all.deb".

this seems pedantic to me, and the package commandline options are no longer
mentioned.
 
> > > If I change base do I need to tweak the clients, or is that automatic?
> > 
> > the client doesn't need to know anything about the base location, however, some
> > of the server tools (ltsp-update-sshkeys, ltsp-update-kernels) may need to be
> > explicitly told to use the alternate locations. using an alternate base
> > location is not well tested, and there are likely bugs.

each of these issues should be separate bug reports. please file them as you
find them.

> > > To try to summarize what I think would help:
> > > 1. build an /etc/ltsp directory and populate it with sample config
> > > files, if appropriate (that is, if packages are supposed to create
> > > their /etc/ directories).
> > 
> > i would consider doing such with /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples, but i'm
> > not going to populate /etc/ with configuration files unless they're actually
> > needed to function properly, as the defaults work without them.
> By samples, I meant files with comments, including commented out
> configuration statements.  I didn't mean "live" statements that might
> not be appropriate.  This could be in place of or in addition to a
> fuller man page (though I think the man page is always a good idea,
> since people can delete the file with comments).

yes, but you still run into upgrade issues if the user does modify the files in
/etc. i'll stick with /usr/share/doc/ltsp*/examples for examples of
configuration files. that's what it's for.

> > > 2. Change the default chroot to something more Debianny,
> > > e.g. /var/ltsp if appropriate (policy consistent).
> > 
> > again, i think /opt is not inappropriate according to FHS, even if /srv is more
> > appropriate.  but there is a huge amount of and cross-distro consistancy and
> > documentation lost by switching that location.

as mentioned above, i'm going to leave it as /opt/ltsp, if you feel it should
be different, please file a new bug report.

> > > 3. Provide more of an overview.
> > 
> > where do you think an overview belongs? 
> In /usr/share/doc/.

i'll dump http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto into
/usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/Howto or something like that.

> > is http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
> > insufficient?

> That was helpful when I found it.  It would also be helpful if it
> included a description of the different packages and how they fit
> together, e.g., the roles of the different servers (dhcp, tftp, nbd,
> nfs, inet).

> More info on the construction of the chroot would be good too.

there's also more upstream documentation now, and i linked to it from the
http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto page.

> One step further back, the basic setup this is aiming for would be
> useful.  I'm slowly realizing it's aiming for something different from
> what I was intending.  I wanted to have the remote computer act as an X
> terminal that had an X server and little else: it would get the login
> screen from kdm running on my server.  So after login it would be
> running on my server (except for the X server itself).  

this is the default behavior of LTSP, although instead of using KDM with the
XDMCP protocol, it uses SSH and X11 Forwarding by default. it can be configured
to use KDM+XDMCP fairly easily, but not all features (local devices, local
sound) will work.

> I think ltsp is setting up something different, in which the X terminal is
> running inside the chroot + some writable space served by nbd.

it can also be configured this way, but is not the default.

> > > 4. Provide more details in the man pages, including the format of the
> > > configuration files (I found ltsp.conf configuration on the web, but
> > > nothing for the builder).

> > they're all NAME=value pairs, though a brief overview in the manpages
> > would be a good idea, 
> also, do the values need to be quoted? are there comments?

i added to the ltsp-build-client man page information about
ltsp-build-client.conf.

> > it would be hard to write in a distro-agnostic
> > way, 
> Do you mean the values for NAME (e.g., BASE) are distro dependent, or
> the values on the right of the assignment are distro dependent?

some of both. i think my updates to the man page should partially help with
that.

> > as the relevent values would be totally different. so i might just
> > stick with example configuration files.
> I thought ltsp was intended to be customized for each distro.

yes, it is customized for every distro, but not *every* aspect of it. we do
make attempts to share as much as possible across distros, and so forking the
man page for each distro is undesireable, in my opinion. man pages don't
provide much of a plugin structure, though it might be possible to come up with
something at build time. patches welcome. :)

> > > 5. Use ltsp consistently for file names (or lts).
> > 
> > lts.conf is kept as is for historical consistancy, everything else uses "ltsp".
> > 
> > > There's probably a lot I'm misunderstanding, but it would be nice if
> > > it were easier to understand :)
> > 
> > it always is, yes. :)
> >  
> > > I'm also a little puzzled that both nbd-server and a tftpd server are
> > > necessary (and an nfs server), though I'm willing to take it on faith.
> > 
> > tftp is needed to boot with PXE, nbd-server is needed to provide network swap,
> > and nfs-kernel-server is used for the root filesystem.
> > 
> > i hope these explanations help. i'll try and address some of the issues, though
> > probably post-lenny, as we're in freeze.
> Terrific.

working on it... 

> By the way, after doing everything, the client hung up after contacting
> the tftp server.  The tftp server appears to be responsive from other
> clients on the network, so I'm not sure if this is a result of something
> else being off (I've done nothing to setup nbd, and there was a warning
> message about its not having a config file on install), or if the PXE
> boot ROM program I'm using (from http://rom-o-matic.net/) isn't working.
> The harware rom doesn't support PXE, nor can I get it to boot from a CD.

if you're still having these problems, please file a separate bug report.

live well,
  vagrant




Tags added: pending Request was from Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Mon, 11 May 2009 20:00:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Reply sent to Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>:
You have taken responsibility. (Tue, 12 May 2009 00:24:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Notification sent to Ross Boylan <RossBoylan@stanfordalumni.org>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. (Tue, 12 May 2009 00:24:02 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


Message #32 received at 509640-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>
To: 509640-close@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Bug#509640: fixed in ltsp 5.1.73-1
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 00:17:06 +0000
Source: ltsp
Source-Version: 5.1.73-1

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
ltsp, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive:

ltsp-client-builder_5.1.73-1_all.udeb
  to pool/main/l/ltsp/ltsp-client-builder_5.1.73-1_all.udeb
ltsp-client-core_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
  to pool/main/l/ltsp/ltsp-client-core_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
ltsp-client_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
  to pool/main/l/ltsp/ltsp-client_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
ltsp-server-standalone_5.1.73-1_all.deb
  to pool/main/l/ltsp/ltsp-server-standalone_5.1.73-1_all.deb
ltsp-server_5.1.73-1_all.deb
  to pool/main/l/ltsp/ltsp-server_5.1.73-1_all.deb
ltsp_5.1.73-1.diff.gz
  to pool/main/l/ltsp/ltsp_5.1.73-1.diff.gz
ltsp_5.1.73-1.dsc
  to pool/main/l/ltsp/ltsp_5.1.73-1.dsc
ltsp_5.1.73.orig.tar.gz
  to pool/main/l/ltsp/ltsp_5.1.73.orig.tar.gz



A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 509640@bugs.debian.org,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org> (supplier of updated ltsp package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing ftpmaster@debian.org)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:40:27 -0700
Source: ltsp
Binary: ltsp-server ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client-core ltsp-client ltsp-client-builder
Architecture: source all i386
Version: 5.1.73-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: LTSP Debian/Ubuntu Maintainers <pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Changed-By: Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@freegeek.org>
Description: 
 ltsp-client - LTSP client environment
 ltsp-client-builder - build an LTSP environment in the installer target (udeb)
 ltsp-client-core - LTSP client environment
 ltsp-server - basic LTSP server environment
 ltsp-server-standalone - complete LTSP server environment
Closes: 509640 522237 522654 522833 525203 527563
Changes: 
 ltsp (5.1.73-1) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * new upstream version:
     - added manpages for various localapps related programs
     - updated ltsp-build-client man page
     - translation updates:
       + French (fr), by by Jean-Baka Domelevo-Entfellner (Closes: #527563)
       + Finnish (fi), by Esko Arajärvi (Closes: #522833)
       + Russian (ru), by Yuri Kozlov (Closes: #522654)
     - if setfacl is present, use it to set write permissions on /dev/snd/* to
       ensure that pulseaudio can write to it.
     - added --purge-chroot commandline option
 .
    * ltsp-server:
      - install manpage for ltsp-localapps
      - fix ltsp-chroot manpage header so it ends up in section 8
      - add /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/Howto.Debian, taken from
        http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto (Closes: #509640)
 .
    * ltsp-client-core:
      - install manpages for ltsp-genmenu, ltsp-localappsd and xatomwait
 .
    * updated ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone descriptions to be more
      specific about which features each provides. thanks to Alexander Kurtz for
      the suggestion. (Closes: #522237)
 .
    * add Japanese (ja) po-debconf template translation by Hideki Yamane
      (Closes: #525203)
Checksums-Sha1: 
 32667da5c027c45a904b8689a09812397302bd65 1576 ltsp_5.1.73-1.dsc
 2cff7b07466de19987cae9df69dd4af2416f5112 345378 ltsp_5.1.73.orig.tar.gz
 2b258c9fe7cf74568bc70eb36d50adfb476c2087 70994 ltsp_5.1.73-1.diff.gz
 95fe51c2a13f99fea378e79c0a5fe22e4410038d 116918 ltsp-server_5.1.73-1_all.deb
 7bbe9e4d4b3dcd0ed0a119b0d3f0a3b144ddf593 43790 ltsp-server-standalone_5.1.73-1_all.deb
 06ab29ea51ad28e9c9dcc761ccf9d1df31cf7825 8470 ltsp-client-builder_5.1.73-1_all.udeb
 9ba0b19b3cd8d36ede673f5502379a0d79d09f79 97754 ltsp-client-core_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
 7ef580bca2de6e26bc70dfe96f788b1a1f46d167 43150 ltsp-client_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
Checksums-Sha256: 
 04f3e567f4ba2947309073050c877e18a17cdfb710b0d92595b9fb89b4596798 1576 ltsp_5.1.73-1.dsc
 db896c6d6f0788ff6d6fdcd01d04d01ecd84a7a0df7bc9d7365295ca252f86e5 345378 ltsp_5.1.73.orig.tar.gz
 32d946aca795fbb802e9382a541b6b911fc2d0777d6597ea2e5653d787ae7ae3 70994 ltsp_5.1.73-1.diff.gz
 7e7b14c72116a5200cecdd969ac457fb01f60fdb5aca6fedfcd36ca025186622 116918 ltsp-server_5.1.73-1_all.deb
 6e26d9c565aa915885ea6d378c48b225a11e05b43726b09777efd3fc579171c4 43790 ltsp-server-standalone_5.1.73-1_all.deb
 8acda24afdce8dd45e7dc852503ebb84cab3d314c77145dcbf53c8106aa1bf33 8470 ltsp-client-builder_5.1.73-1_all.udeb
 e9d643d7d37dc62bac2964d8fd98b028f8ef3db009dfa8446ea1db1660f83215 97754 ltsp-client-core_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
 31d44842237dba478708199e811742104b6065e48d54a23a10fdba075141b7cd 43150 ltsp-client_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
Files: 
 4a8b291c77d94f4bd183c313253a7fea 1576 misc extra ltsp_5.1.73-1.dsc
 072f614ad1387bc9bf663da051f68a91 345378 misc extra ltsp_5.1.73.orig.tar.gz
 47beced248f8c4ce3fce670c23f1a63a 70994 misc extra ltsp_5.1.73-1.diff.gz
 a20d1f9327c3229ff169e06186c40e48 116918 misc extra ltsp-server_5.1.73-1_all.deb
 a1491d540f15fa44f7d0564214253dd6 43790 misc extra ltsp-server-standalone_5.1.73-1_all.deb
 9b9501d45c090bd58cbc11ac45fd5a00 8470 debian-installer extra ltsp-client-builder_5.1.73-1_all.udeb
 5782e2eb271f47a2a2574733711f921e 97754 misc extra ltsp-client-core_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
 73c7b3088487418b7bcf6fed7276c549 43150 misc extra ltsp-client_5.1.73-1_i386.deb
Package-Type: udeb

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Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:34:43 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).


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