Debian Bug report logs - #509546
www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Hideki Yamane \(Debian-JP\)" <henrich@debian.or.jp>

To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:47:07 +0900

Package: www.debian.org
Severity: important

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Hi webmasters,

 I saw http://www.debian.org/consultants/index.en.html#Japan, and was very
 very surprised, because there is the name "nihonsoft".

 They are slashdotted (in slashdot.jp) some years ago... why? 
 Because they made their own Linux distribution by just replacing copyright
 holders name with using sed or something...OH NO.

 And they would licensed their distribution under "GGPL", they say 
 "Greater Good Public License", most of the people think it violate GPL 
 (or other licenses), but they don't think so.
 ...it's cruel, but not just a joke. It's true.

 They renamed their license as CGPL, http://cgpl.org/, but just change
 its name.


 They don't know about what is Free Software, what is copyright (or copyleft) 
 and license. They don't have ANY trust from people who cares about Linux and 
 lives in Japan. (If you don't believe, just ask any Japanese FLOSS developers!)

 and others, http://www.fasp.tv/ stops their job (says in their page).

 http://www.codwiz.com/ says only "meaningless" thing, and I'm working for 
 Debian 5 or 6 years (make and maintain packages, translate, join community 
 events), but didn't heared about them... it's so strange thing ;-)


 Strongly, I proposed to remove them from this list.
 And next time you will add consultants in Japan on that page, 
 please ask us - Japanese Debian Developer/Maintainer/Contributors.

 Thanks.

- -- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane     henrich @ debian.or.jp/iijmio-mail.jp
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane

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Message #10 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop>

To: henrich@debian.or.jp, 509546@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:58:44 +0000

"Hideki Yamane \(Debian-JP\)" <henrich@debian.or.jp> wrote:
>  I saw http://www.debian.org/consultants/index.en.html#Japan, and was very
>  very surprised, because there is the name "nihonsoft".
>
>  They are slashdotted (in slashdot.jp) some years ago... why? 
>  Because they made their own Linux distribution by just replacing copyright
>  holders name with using sed or something...OH NO.

Please send a link to the slashdot.jp page or other related materials
- I can get it translated but I can't find the page because I'm not
sure how to search for "nihonsoft" at slashdot.jp.

[...]
>  and others, http://www.fasp.tv/ stops their job (says in their page).

I think that's only for the Groupware service.  Their debian webshop
still seems to be open today.

>  http://www.codwiz.com/ says only "meaningless" thing, and I'm working for 
>  Debian 5 or 6 years (make and maintain packages, translate, join community 
>  events), but didn't heared about them... it's so strange thing ;-)

More importantly, I can't see any mention of debian services on their
site, but I don't see that we require public announcement on
http://www.debian.org/consultants/info though.  Might be worth
emailing them just to check that they still work with debian.

Hope that helps,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef)
Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small
worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/
(Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237

Message #15 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>

To: MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop>

Cc: 509546@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:52:21 +0900

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:58:44 +0000
MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:

 Thanks for your reply.

> Please send a link to the slashdot.jp page or other related materials
> - I can get it translated but I can't find the page because I'm not
> sure how to search for "nihonsoft" at slashdot.jp.

 Just search with "nihonlinux" :)
 http://slashdot.jp/linux/article.pl?sid=02/10/29/1244228

 # or ask DDs in slashdot.jp (ODSN, http://osdn.jp/).


> >  and others, http://www.fasp.tv/ stops their job (says in their page).
> 
> I think that's only for the Groupware service.  Their debian webshop
> still seems to be open today.

 Ah, you're right.

 # but I don't want to ask them to sell their original LiveCD(or LiveDVD) 
   to me, it is... 840,000 yen (!) I'll make it less than 1/100 costs, haha ;-)


> >  http://www.codwiz.com/ says only "meaningless" thing, and I'm working for 
> >  Debian 5 or 6 years (make and maintain packages, translate, join community 
> >  events), but didn't heared about them... it's so strange thing ;-)
> 
> More importantly, I can't see any mention of debian services on their
> site, but I don't see that we require public announcement on
> http://www.debian.org/consultants/info though.  Might be worth
> emailing them just to check that they still work with debian.

 I'll do that. Great thanks.


-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane     henrich @ debian.or.jp/iijmio-mail.jp
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane

Message #20 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop>

To: henrich@debian.or.jp, 509546@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:08:32 +0000

Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:58:44 +0000
> MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
>  Just search with "nihonlinux" :)
>  http://slashdot.jp/linux/article.pl?sid=02/10/29/1244228
>
>  # or ask DDs in slashdot.jp (ODSN, http://osdn.jp/).

Should we stop linking to a debian-promoting company in 2009 because
they violated Mandrake's licence for a while in 2002?  It looks like
someone else owns nihonlinux.jp now.  Is this a current concern?

Confused,
-- 
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

Message #25 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>

To: MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop>

Cc: 509546@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:35:08 +0900

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:08:32 +0000
MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
> Should we stop linking to a debian-promoting company in 2009 because
> they violated Mandrake's licence for a while in 2002?  It looks like
> someone else owns nihonlinux.jp now.  Is this a current concern?

 nihonlinux.jp was owned by nihonsoft.jp's owner, and now other person
 owns nihonlinux.jp. Come on wayback machine, take me to the world in 2002... 
 Okay, here is http://web.archive.org/web/20021122152220/http://nihonlinux.jp/

 Souhei Abe, is the person who did violated Mandrake's license and tried 
 to apply GGPL (it's failure as license, broken) and has been the owner 
 of that company, not someone else.
 see http://lists.sourceforge.jp/pipermail/nihonlinux-process/ , and 
 you can get his name in that archives.

 He has not do any explanations about violation, just stop development and 
 distribute (and delete its related links and documents).


 I think it's same as we'll encourage SCO as a Linux consultant ;)

-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane     henrich @ debian.or.jp/iijmio-mail.jp
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane

Message #30 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Gerfried Fuchs <rhonda@deb.at>

To: Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>, 509546@bugs.debian.org

Cc: consultants@debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:12:25 +0100

	Hi!

 I can't really deny that you propably got a valid point here, but:

a) debian-www isn't the place for that, the consultants pages are under
the responsibility of the consultants team (Cc'ing them to bring them on
board)

b) even then I think it would be proper to give them the chance to
defent their claims, wether they have learned from their problems in the
past, or something like that.

 Leaving all you have written in as reference, even though it's in the
bugreport anyway. ;)

* Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp> [2008-12-30 13:35:08 CET]:
>  nihonlinux.jp was owned by nihonsoft.jp's owner, and now other person
>  owns nihonlinux.jp. Come on wayback machine, take me to the world in 2002... 
>  Okay, here is http://web.archive.org/web/20021122152220/http://nihonlinux.jp/
> 
>  Souhei Abe, is the person who did violated Mandrake's license and tried 
>  to apply GGPL (it's failure as license, broken) and has been the owner 
>  of that company, not someone else.
>  see http://lists.sourceforge.jp/pipermail/nihonlinux-process/ , and 
>  you can get his name in that archives.
> 
>  He has not do any explanations about violation, just stop development and 
>  distribute (and delete its related links and documents).
> 
> 
>  I think it's same as we'll encourage SCO as a Linux consultant ;)

 So long!
Rhonda

Message #35 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>

To: MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop>

Cc: 509546@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:12:47 +0900

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:52:21 +0900
Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp> wrote:
> > >  http://www.codwiz.com/ says only "meaningless" thing, and I'm working for 
> > >  Debian 5 or 6 years (make and maintain packages, translate, join community 
> > >  events), but didn't heared about them... it's so strange thing ;-)
> > 
> > More importantly, I can't see any mention of debian services on their
> > site, but I don't see that we require public announcement on
> > http://www.debian.org/consultants/info though.  Might be worth
> > emailing them just to check that they still work with debian.
> 
>  I'll do that. Great thanks.

 I've contacted with codwiz.com mastar, Mr. Yamamoto, and he told
 me that his company uses Debian for many purposes and their page
 is now under reconstruction. 

 And he want to 
 a) remove contact mail address for that page, then add contact page 
    as http://www.codwiz.com/inq/
 b) change his company name : Code Wizard -> codwiz.com

 Could you apply those changes, please?


-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane     henrich @ debian.or.jp/iijmio-mail.jp
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane

Message #40 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>

To: Gerfried Fuchs <rhonda@deb.at>

Cc: 509546@bugs.debian.org, consultants@debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:31:33 +0900

Hi,

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:12:25 +0100
Gerfried Fuchs <rhonda@deb.at> wrote:
> a) debian-www isn't the place for that, the consultants pages are under
> the responsibility of the consultants team (Cc'ing them to bring them on
> board)

 Okay, I agree.


> b) even then I think it would be proper to give them the chance to
> defent their claims, wether they have learned from their problems in the
> past, or something like that.

 I want to know that, too :)


-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane     henrich @ debian.or.jp/iijmio-mail.jp
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane

Message #45 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop>

To: henrich@debian.or.jp, 509546@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:03:17 +0000

Hi - I've been cc'd on the change request, but I thought I was
told to leave it to the consultants team, so I'm not acting on it.

Hope that's OK,
-- 
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

Message #50 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: fchoong@netbeans.jp

To: 509546@bugs.debian.org

Cc: henrich@debian.or.jp, mjr@phonecoop.coop, rhonda@deb.at, consultants@debian.org

Subject: About NihonLinux.

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 04:11:08 +0900 (JST)

Hi Webmasters, Hideki, MJ, Gerfried,

Perhaps you can take a look at what this says:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/NihonLinux

It is not written by me, but by someone trying to archive efforts to build
Linux Distributions in Japan. For those who cannot read Japanese, here is
a small discussion a few years ago on Kaffe's mailing list(Please read
through the entire thread):

http://www.kaffe.org/pipermail/kaffe-siteadmin/2003/000003.html

I was a volunteer for the FSF Compliance Lab Team, so I did try my best to
avoid any GPL violation. Hopefully they can vouch for my beliefs in Free
Software.

(Please forward this mail to the appropriate mailing list).
Thank you.

David Fu.

Message #55 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Osamu Aoki <osamu@debian.org>

To: consultants@debian.org

Cc: Gerfried Fuchs <rhonda@deb.at>, Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>, 509546@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#509546: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:06:18 +0900

Hi,

On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 09:31:33PM +0900, Hideki Yamane wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:12:25 +0100
> Gerfried Fuchs <rhonda@deb.at> wrote:
> > a) debian-www isn't the place for that, the consultants pages are under
> > the responsibility of the consultants team (Cc'ing them to bring them on
> > board)
> 
>  Okay, I agree.

I see http://www.debian.org/consultants/info

It seems rule is 
 * someone complain
 * consultants team contacts
 * if no positive confirmation within 4 weeks
 * delisted

Hmmm.... it seems Debian side has too much burden.

I wonder why burden is more on consultant side.  Requiring almost
nothing to stay on Debian page is not good for us.  At least they should
make effort to get listed onece a year.

Osamu

Message #60 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp>

To: fchoong@netbeans.jp

Cc: 509546@bugs.debian.org, henrich@debian.or.jp, mjr@phonecoop.coop, rhonda@deb.at, consultants@debian.org

Subject: Re: About NihonLinux.

Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 23:22:15 +0900

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 04:11:08 +0900 (JST)
fchoong@netbeans.jp wrote:
> I was a volunteer for the FSF Compliance Lab Team, so I did try my best to
> avoid any GPL violation. Hopefully they can vouch for my beliefs in Free
> Software.

 So, why there is NO explain about copyright violation made by Nihonsoft for
 Mandrake distribution and misunderstanding about GPL and GGPL, yet. I've never 
 seen that. Are there any pages or mails for that?

 You did try your best, okay that's good, but how about Nihonsoft's founder, 
 Souhei Abe? I doubt that he understands what is the copyright, license and 
 free software... (Am I too worried about this?)


-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane     henrich @ debian.or.jp/iijmio-mail.jp
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane

Message #65 received at 509546@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: fchoong@netbeans.jp

To: "Hideki Yamane" <henrich@debian.or.jp>

Cc: 509546@bugs.debian.org, henrich@debian.or.jp, mjr@phonecoop.coop, rhonda@deb.at, consultants@debian.org

Subject: Re: About NihonLinux.

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 02:00:33 +0900 (JST)

Hi Hideki,

>
>  So, why there is NO explain about copyright violation made by Nihonsoft
> for
>  Mandrake distribution and misunderstanding about GPL and GGPL, yet. I've
> never
>  seen that. Are there any pages or mails for that?

As far as I know, no Mandrake-based distribution was released by
Nihonsoft, so no copyright violation occurred. The debate about GPL and
CGPL/GGPL is on going, but I am no longer involved in those discussions.
The original aim of NihonLinux was to produce a distribution similar to
Ubuntu, but it was caught in an unfortunate controversy.

Besides NihonLinux, the only two products released by Nihonsoft are
firecat( http://firecat.nihonsoft.org ) and turbosql(
http://turbosql.nihonsoft.org ).
Both are under the LGPL.

> but how about Nihonsoft's founder, Souhei Abe?

At that time(2002), Mr. Abe did not fully understand what FOSS was about,
but that can be said about most new Linux users. However, that does not
mean his intention was bad. Only as we participate and use FOSS more, do
we begin to understand more about Free Software.

David Fu.

Message #72 received at 509546-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Andrei Popescu <andreimpopescu@gmail.com>

To: 509546-done@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: www.debian.org: not suitable consultants list

Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 23:11:46 +0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,

AFAICT David Fu responded to all objections of Hideki Yamane, thus 
closing.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic

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