Debian Bug report logs - #508118
Incorrect term for Americas

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Joshua Swink" <joshua.swink@gmail.com>

To: submit@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Incorrect term for Americas

Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 17:38:01 -0800

Package: tzdata
Version: 2008i-3

The package refers to the Americas as "America", which is incorrect.

--
Joshua Swink
joshua.swink@gmail.com

Message #12 received at 508118@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Clint Adams <schizo@debian.org>

To: Joshua Swink <joshua.swink@gmail.com>, 508118@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#508118: Incorrect term for Americas

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 16:36:39 +0000

On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 05:38:01PM -0800, Joshua Swink wrote:
> The package refers to the Americas as "America", which is incorrect.

Be more specific.

Message #17 received at 508118@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Joshua Swink" <joshua.swink@gmail.com>

To: "Clint Adams" <schizo@debian.org>, 508118@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#508118: Incorrect term for Americas

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:07:24 +0000

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Clint Adams <schizo@debian.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 05:38:01PM -0800, Joshua Swink wrote:
>> The package refers to the Americas as "America", which is incorrect.
>
> Be more specific.
>

The file usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab refers to the Americas as
"America" 137 times.

Less importantly (since they do not display to the user), there are
three directories named "America" which concern the Americas:

./usr/share/zoneinfo/right/America
./usr/share/zoneinfo/posix/America
./usr/share/zoneinfo/America

--
Joshua Swink

Message #22 received at 508118@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Clint Adams <schizo@debian.org>

To: Joshua Swink <joshua.swink@gmail.com>

Cc: 508118@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#508118: Incorrect term for Americas

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:35:59 +0000

On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 06:07:24PM +0000, Joshua Swink wrote:
> The file usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab refers to the Americas as
> "America" 137 times.

Do you mean that "America" is used to refer to either North America or
South America each of those 137 times?

> Less importantly (since they do not display to the user), there are
> three directories named "America" which concern the Americas:
> 
> ./usr/share/zoneinfo/right/America
> ./usr/share/zoneinfo/posix/America
> ./usr/share/zoneinfo/America

When is zone.tab displayed to the user?

Message #27 received at 508118@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Joshua Swink" <joshua.swink@gmail.com>

To: "Clint Adams" <schizo@debian.org>

Cc: 508118@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#508118: Incorrect term for Americas

Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 11:24:41 -0800

In Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Clint Adams <schizo@debian.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 06:07:24PM +0000, Joshua Swink wrote:
>> The file usr/share/zoneinfo/zone.tab refers to the Americas as
>> "America" 137 times.
>
> Do you mean that "America" is used to refer to either North America or
> South America each of those 137 times?
>

It's used to refer to the Americas. North and South America together
are known as the Americas.

> When is zone.tab displayed to the user?

During package configuration. When you first install the operating
system or enter "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata", the first question asked is
your geographic area. One of the options displayed is "America".

--
Joshua Swink

Message #32 received at 508118@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Christian Perrier <bubulle@debian.org>

To: Joshua Swink <joshua.swink@gmail.com>, 508118@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#508118: Incorrect term for Americas

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 07:14:57 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Quoting Joshua Swink (joshua.swink@gmail.com):

> It's used to refer to the Americas. North and South America together
> are known as the Americas.

Or known by their users as "America" and, depending on the side of
Panama Canal, that might be North, South, Latin, Central, etc.
An sometimes even the country that names self "America".

All of them of course being technically wrong, but so what? :-)

> 
> > When is zone.tab displayed to the user?
> 
> During package configuration. When you first install the operating
> system or enter "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata", the first question asked is
> your geographic area. One of the options displayed is "America".


So, you mean you want 30 translators to update their work just because
you feel the need of nitpicking things? 

The field in the debconf screens is a direct reference to zoneinfo
directories. So changing one means changing both....thus requesting
upstream data to be changed, thus changing the settings on millions of
machines, not all of them running Debian.

I actually feel at least like objecting for a fix for lenny.

For the record, "when you first install the operating system",
tzdata's debconf question is not showed as this information is managed
by Debian Installer, where the geographical location is dirst asked
according to the chosen language and, when users pick up an "Other",
according to the world's country list.....with countries sorted among
"continents".....and these continents being "North America", "South
America", "Central America".

Actually, post-lenny, maybe fix this in the debconf screens, in order
to be technically picky (and accepting to diverge from the zoneinfo
directories), but probably not more.

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Message #37 received at 508118@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Joshua Swink" <joshua.swink@gmail.com>

To: "Christian Perrier" <bubulle@debian.org>

Cc: 508118@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#508118: Incorrect term for Americas

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 06:57:58 +0000

> So, you mean you want 30 translators to update their work just because
> you feel the need of nitpicking things?

Whoa there. I'm not in a position to judge the technical difficulty of
fixing it. If folks maintaining the package deem that the effort to
fix it outweighs the benefit of correct terminology, I'll be in no
position to contradict them.

If it seems like I've dragged this conversation out, it's because
Clint didn't seem familiar with the terminology. I'll assume from this
point on that everyone is familiar with it, even folks for whom
English isn't their first language. Which means I've probably
contributed everything useful that I can.

Thanks for your time and attention.

--
Joshua Swink

Message #42 received at 508118@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Christian Perrier <bubulle@debian.org>

To: Joshua Swink <joshua.swink@gmail.com>

Cc: 508118@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#508118: Incorrect term for Americas

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:45:47 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Quoting Joshua Swink (joshua.swink@gmail.com):
> > So, you mean you want 30 translators to update their work just because
> > you feel the need of nitpicking things?
> 
> Whoa there. I'm not in a position to judge the technical difficulty of
> fixing it. If folks maintaining the package deem that the effort to
> fix it outweighs the benefit of correct terminology, I'll be in no
> position to contradict them.
> 
> If it seems like I've dragged this conversation out, it's because
> Clint didn't seem familiar with the terminology. I'll assume from this
> point on that everyone is familiar with it, even folks for whom
> English isn't their first language. Which means I've probably
> contributed everything useful that I can.


OK. I probably slightly over-reacted anyway. Apologies for this and
thanks for understanding.

Clint *is* familiar with that terminology, indeed.

Clint, I suggest that "maybe" you consider s/America/Americas in the
debconf templates....if the small difference with zoneinfo directory
names is considered acceptable.

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