Debian Bug report logs - #467324
include gnash in desktop?

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Subject: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:24:24 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Package: tasksel
Version: 2.71
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

I'd like to propose gnash browser plugins being added to the desktop task.

A significant amount of websites nowadays use flash;  significant enough
that most of our first-time users are troubled with the difficulty of finding
and installing a "suitable" flash plugin (which is often not that suitable,
given that it is propietary and buggy).

I use gnash regularly (in combination with adblock) and I think it's reasonably
mature nowadays.  At least, it works for the most common flash sites, like
youtube.

CCing gnash maintainers as well.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=ca_AD.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=ca_AD.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash

Versions of packages tasksel depends on:
ii  aptitude                     0.4.10-1+b1 terminal-based package manager
ii  debconf [debconf-2.0]        1.5.19      Debian configuration management sy
ii  liblocale-gettext-perl       1.05-2      Using libc functions for internati
ii  tasksel-data                 2.71        Official tasks used for installati

tasksel recommends no packages.

-- debconf information excluded

[gnash.diff (text/plain, attachment)]

Message #10 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:10:56 +0200

Robert Millan wrote:
> Package: tasksel
> Version: 2.71
> Severity: wishlist
> Tags: patch
> 
> I'd like to propose gnash browser plugins being added to the desktop task.
> 
> A significant amount of websites nowadays use flash;  significant enough
> that most of our first-time users are troubled with the difficulty of finding
> and installing a "suitable" flash plugin (which is often not that suitable,
> given that it is propietary and buggy).
> 
> I use gnash regularly (in combination with adblock) and I think it's reasonably
> mature nowadays.  At least, it works for the most common flash sites, like
> youtube.

I disagree, lately, none of the official Debian packages worked for me 
on either amd64 or powerpc.

> CCing gnash maintainers as well.

No offense, but I think gnash is not yet mature enough to be a part of 
the desktop task.

-- 
Regards,
EddyP
=============================================
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein

Message #13 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

Cc: 467324@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:16:16 +0100

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:10:56AM +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
> >I use gnash regularly (in combination with adblock) and I think it's 
> >reasonably
> >mature nowadays.  At least, it works for the most common flash sites, like
> >youtube.
> 
> I disagree, lately, none of the official Debian packages worked for me 
> on either amd64 or powerpc.

I find that strange.  I'm currently using 0.8.1+cvs20080212.1133-1 on amd64
and works fine for my use case.  It doesn't support all the sites, but it
supports the big ones (e.g. youtube) and is much better than not supporting any
at all.

Please can you be more specific?

  - versions you have tried
  - unsupported websites you are missing
  - possible drawbacks that would make "flash-less" setup preferrable

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #18 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Cc: 467324@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:40:07 +0200

Robert Millan wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:10:56AM +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
>>> I use gnash regularly (in combination with adblock) and I think it's 
>>> reasonably
>>> mature nowadays.  At least, it works for the most common flash sites, like
>>> youtube.
>> I disagree, lately, none of the official Debian packages worked for me 
>> on either amd64 or powerpc.
> 
> I find that strange.  I'm currently using 0.8.1+cvs20080212.1133-1 on amd64
> and works fine for my use case.  It doesn't support all the sites, but it
> supports the big ones (e.g. youtube) and is much better than not supporting any
> at all.
> 
> Please can you be more specific?
> 
>   - versions you have tried

All official versions (there has been a regression at some point, but 
unfortunately I can't say when it happened).

I have tried the version from unstable, but even on youtube I get one 
second of "loading" then a grey area where the payer would be. Maybe 
there are some persistent settings in $HOME?

Also, on an Etch powerpc system with gnash backported, it was working 
somewhere around 0.8.0, but lately it just continuously load.

>   - unsupported websites you are missing

www.220.ro
www.triluliu.ro

>   - possible drawbacks that would make "flash-less" setup preferrable

Browser crashes, hangs, bad first impression of the F/OSS software?

-- 
Regards,
EddyP
=============================================
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein

Message #21 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

Cc: 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:35:31 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 01:40:07AM +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
> >
> >Please can you be more specific?
> >
> >  - versions you have tried
> 
> All official versions (there has been a regression at some point, but 
> unfortunately I can't say when it happened).
> 
> I have tried the version from unstable, but even on youtube I get one 
> second of "loading" then a grey area where the payer would be. Maybe 
> there are some persistent settings in $HOME?
> 
> Also, on an Etch powerpc system with gnash backported, it was working 
> somewhere around 0.8.0, but lately it just continuously load.

I can't reproduce this, but anyway I suggest you file bug reports (provided
it applies to the latest version -backported or not-), and possibly cleanup
your $HOME ;-)

> >  - unsupported websites you are missing
> 
> www.220.ro
> www.triluliu.ro

I suggest you file reports as well (note: I don't consider this a drawback in
comparison with installing flash-less and therefore not supporting any).

> >  - possible drawbacks that would make "flash-less" setup preferrable
> 
> Browser crashes, hangs,

I haven't had any of these for a long time, although I have to admit I use
it in combination with adblock.  If gnash is going to be default, though, I'll
have to change this practice.

Gnash maintainers: Do you think gnash overall stability is currently in a good
state for lenny?  If not, how viable is it to make it rock-solid by that time?

> bad first impression of the F/OSS software?

This is no excuse for not contemplating stability, but in my experience with
first-time users, they get the worst impression from youtube not working (and
the response from the browser being utterly confusing) than with browser
crashes.  They're used to browser crashes after all, and they get the same
thing when they manage to add Adobe's crap anyway.

Thanks,

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #26 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

To: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>

Cc: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:29:26 +0200

Miriam Ruiz wrote:
>> Gnash maintainers: Do you think gnash overall stability is currently in a
>> good
>> state for lenny?  If not, how viable is it to make it rock-solid by that
>> time?

I have removed everything under ~/.local/share/gnash, and now I started 
looking for anything containing 'gnash' in . directories to clean up.

Still no success.


Any pointers from the gnash developers about possible configuration 
left-overs that I should remove are more than welcome.


Note that even youtube doesn't work, so ...

> I think it is stable enough to be included in Lenny, but it is not perfect
> yet, as you might imagine :)

Note that usually people think of gnash in terms of the „flash plugin 
for firefox”, and since the gnash package doesn't actually offer that 
functionality, in tasksel we should talk about "mozilla-plugin-gnash" or 
"konqueror-plugin-gnash", depending on the task.

-- 
Regards,
EddyP
=============================================
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein

Message #31 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>, control@bugs.debian.org, 467324@bugs.debian.org, Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, gnash@packages.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:06:34 +0200

clone 467324 -1
reassign -1 gnash
retitile -1 gnash: debris from older versions make current ones break
# don't know if this should be serious, but since gnash was never part
# of a release, I guess important is ok
severity -1 important
thanks

Robert Millan wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 01:40:07AM +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
>>> Please can you be more specific?
>>>
>>>  - versions you have tried
>> All official versions (there has been a regression at some point, but 
>> unfortunately I can't say when it happened).
>>
>> I have tried the version from unstable, but even on youtube I get one 
>> second of "loading" then a grey area where the payer would be. Maybe 
>> there are some persistent settings in $HOME?
>>
>> Also, on an Etch powerpc system with gnash backported, it was working 
>> somewhere around 0.8.0, but lately it just continuously load.
> 
> I can't reproduce this, but anyway I suggest you file bug reports (provided
> it applies to the latest version -backported or not-), and possibly cleanup
> your $HOME ;-)

It appears that there is indeed something in my setup, since I created a 
new account in which *initially* gnash didn't work, but after restarting 
the browser, it worked, and it worked even better than before.

I erased the shockwave flash reference from:
$HOME/.local/share/applications/defaults.list

And apprently there was something suspicious in
$HOME/.local/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache


(Let's see. Nope, not enough.)


Hmm, there are some oddities in my ~/.mozilla/firefox/pluginreg.dat.

I had a reference to an old flash non-free plugin installed in my home 
dir somewhere.

Is it normal for .flv to ba handled by 
/usr/lib/totem/gstreamer/libtotem-basic-plugin.so ?


Still, not enough.

I even copied the .mozilla/firefox/pluginreg.dat contents from the test 
user profile to the mine, still no improvement.


OK, I started fresh with another user, logged in fired up epiphany and 
later did this search:

bounty:/home/test2# for I in .* ; do [ "$I" = ".." -o "$I" = "." ] || 
find $I -exec grep -H -ni 'gnash' {} \; ; done | grep -v .xsession-errors
grep: .gnome2/seahorse-BMvbkj/S.gpg-agent: No such device or address
Fişierul binar .gnome2/epiphany/mozilla/epiphany/Cache/_CACHE_002_ 
corespunde
.mozilla/pluginreg.dat:104:/usr/lib/gnash/libgnashplugin.so:$
.mozilla/pluginreg.dat:107:Shockwave Flash 8.0 r99. Gnash cvs, the GNU 
Flash Player.   Copyright &copy; 2006, 2007, 2008 <a 
href="http://www.fsf.org">Free Software   Foundation</a>, Inc. <br> 
Gnash comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.   You may 
redistribute copies of Gnash under the terms of the   <a 
href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html">GNU General Public 
License</a>. For more information about Gnash, see <a 
href="http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/"> 
http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash</a>.   Compatible Shockwave Flash 8.0 
r99.:$


then did this:

bounty:/home/test2# for I in .* ; do [ "$I" = ".." -o "$I" = "." ] || 
find $I -exec grep -H -ni -E '(flv|swf)' {} \; ; done | grep -v 
.xsession-errors
grep: .gnome2/seahorse-BMvbkj/S.gpg-agent: No such device or address
Fişierul binar .gnome2/epiphany/mozilla/epiphany/Cache/_CACHE_001_ 
corespunde
Fişierul binar .gnome2/epiphany/mozilla/epiphany/Cache/_CACHE_002_ 
corespunde
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:713:  <extension>swf</extension>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:714:  <extension>swfl</extension>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:717:  <name>video/x-flv</name>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:719:  <caps>video/x-flv</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:720:  <extension>flv</extension>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:1417:   <caps>video/x-3ivx, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-asus, asusversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-asus, asusversion=(int)2, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-cirrus-logic-accupak, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-compressed-yuv, framerate=(fraction)[ 
0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-raw-rgb, bpp=(int){ 8, 24 }, depth=(int){ 8, 24 }, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-divx, divxversion=(int)3, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-divx, divxversion=(int)4, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-truemotion, trueversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-dv, systemstream=(boolean)false, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-divx, divxversion=(int)5, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-flash-video, flvversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h263, variant=(string)itu, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h264, variant=(string)itu, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-huffyuv, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-intel-h263, variant=(string)intel, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)I420, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-indeo, indeoversion=(int)3, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-indeo, indeoversion=(int)4, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-indeo, indeoversion=(int)5, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-h263, variant=(string)lead, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-h263, variant=(string)microsoft, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/mpeg, mpegversion=(int)4, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 
], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; image/jpeg, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-msmpeg, msmpegversion=(int)42, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-msmpeg, msmpegversion=(int)43, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/mpeg, systemstream=(boolean)false, 
mpegversion=(int)1, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/mpeg, 
systemstream=(boolean)false, mpegversion=(int)2, framerate=(fraction)[ 
0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-msmpeg, msmpegversion=(int)41, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-mszh, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 
16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; image/png, framerate=(fraction)[ 
0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-rle, layout=(string)microsoft, depth=(int)[ 1, 64 ], 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-indeo, indeoversion=(int)2, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/sp5x, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-truemotion, trueversion=(int)2, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-camtasia, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-ultimotion, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-ati-vcr, vcrversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-ati-vcr, vcrversion=(int)2, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h263, variant=(string)vdolive, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h263, variant=(string)vivo, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-vmnc, version=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-vp3, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-h264, variant=(string)videosoft, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-wmv, wmvversion=(int)1, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 
], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-wmv, 
wmvversion=(int)2, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-wmv, 
wmvversion=(int)3, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-xvid, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-xan, wcversion=(int)4, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)YUY2, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)YVU9, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-zlib, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-cinepak, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 
16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h264, variant=(string)itu, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-msvideocodec, msvideoversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h263, variant=(string)xirlink, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:1845:   <caps>video/x-3ivx, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-asus, asusversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-asus, asusversion=(int)2, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-cirrus-logic-accupak, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-compressed-yuv, framerate=(fraction)[ 
0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-raw-rgb, bpp=(int){ 8, 24 }, depth=(int){ 8, 24 }, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-divx, divxversion=(int)3, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-divx, divxversion=(int)4, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-truemotion, trueversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-dv, systemstream=(boolean)false, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-divx, divxversion=(int)5, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-flash-video, flvversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h263, variant=(string)itu, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h264, variant=(string)itu, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-huffyuv, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-intel-h263, variant=(string)intel, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)I420, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-indeo, indeoversion=(int)3, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-indeo, indeoversion=(int)4, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-indeo, indeoversion=(int)5, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-h263, variant=(string)lead, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-h263, variant=(string)microsoft, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/mpeg, mpegversion=(int)4, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 
], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; image/jpeg, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-msmpeg, msmpegversion=(int)42, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-msmpeg, msmpegversion=(int)43, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/mpeg, systemstream=(boolean)false, 
mpegversion=(int)1, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/mpeg, 
systemstream=(boolean)false, mpegversion=(int)2, framerate=(fraction)[ 
0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-msmpeg, msmpegversion=(int)41, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-mszh, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 
16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; image/png, framerate=(fraction)[ 
0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-rle, layout=(string)microsoft, depth=(int)[ 1, 64 ], 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-indeo, indeoversion=(int)2, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/sp5x, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-truemotion, trueversion=(int)2, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-camtasia, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-ultimotion, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-ati-vcr, vcrversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-ati-vcr, vcrversion=(int)2, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h263, variant=(string)vdolive, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h263, variant=(string)vivo, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-vmnc, version=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-vp3, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-h264, variant=(string)videosoft, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-wmv, wmvversion=(int)1, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 
], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-wmv, 
wmvversion=(int)2, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-wmv, 
wmvversion=(int)3, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-xvid, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-xan, wcversion=(int)4, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)YUY2, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)YVU9, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-zlib, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 
2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; 
video/x-cinepak, framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 
16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h264, variant=(string)itu, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-msvideocodec, msvideoversion=(int)1, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-h263, variant=(string)xirlink, 
framerate=(fraction)[ 0/1, 2147483647/1 ], width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], 
height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ]; video/x-dv, systemstream=(boolean)true; 
video/x-avi-unknown</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:2826:  <name>ffenc_flv</name>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:2827:  <longname>FFMPEG FLV video 
encoder</longname>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:2829:  <description>FFMPEG flv 
encoder</description>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:2835:   <caps>video/x-flash-video, 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], framerate=(fraction)[ 
0/1, 2147483647/1 ], flvversion=(int)1</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:3681:  <name>ffenc_adpcm_swf</name>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:3684:  <description>FFMPEG adpcm_swf 
encoder</description>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:3690:   <caps>audio/x-adpcm, 
rate=(int)[ 8000, 96000 ], channels=(int)[ 1, 2 ], layout=(string)swf</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:4058:  <name>ffdec_flv</name>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:4060:  <longname>FFMPEG FLV video 
decoder</longname>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:4062:  <description>FFMPEG flv 
decoder</description>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:4074:   <caps>video/x-flash-video, 
width=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], height=(int)[ 16, 4096 ], framerate=(fraction)[ 
0/1, 2147483647/1 ], flvversion=(int)1</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6175:  <name>ffdec_adpcm_swf</name>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6179:  <description>FFMPEG adpcm_swf 
decoder</description>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6191:   <caps>audio/x-adpcm, 
rate=(int)[ 8000, 96000 ], channels=(int)[ 1, 2 ], layout=(string)swf</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6754:  <name>ffdemux_flv</name>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6756:  <longname>FFMPEG flv format 
demuxer</longname>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6758:  <description>FFMPEG flv 
format demuxer</description>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6776:   <caps>video/x-flv</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6780:  <name>fftype_flv</name>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6782:  <caps>video/x-flv</caps>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:6783:  <extension>flv</extension>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:7643:  <name>ffdemux_swf</name>
.gstreamer-0.10/registry.x86_64.xml:7669:  <name>fftype_swf</name>
.mozilla/pluginreg.dat:71:10:video/flv:Flash video:flv:$
.mozilla/pluginreg.dat:110:0:application/x-shockwave-flash:Shockwave 
Flash:swf:$


So I assume my problems come from either of these. Most probably, from 
gstreamer.

Damn, I moved this away, too, but no improvement, either. Maybe I should 
log out/log in before trying?


I will try to overwrite/move away the files generated in the test login 
account to see if things improve/get fixed.


>>>  - unsupported websites you are missing
>> www.220.ro

This partly works with frequent glitches in the sound stream (as if 
decoding the stream is too slow) on the new account.

>> www.triluliu.ro

This second site still really is unusable.

> I suggest you file reports as well (note: I don't consider this a drawback in
> comparison with installing flash-less and therefore not supporting any).
> 
>>>  - possible drawbacks that would make "flash-less" setup preferrable
>> Browser crashes, hangs,
> 
> I haven't had any of these for a long time, although I have to admit I use
> it in combination with adblock.  If gnash is going to be default, though, I'll
> have to change this practice.

I use noscripts, but that shouldn't affect epiphany.

> Gnash maintainers: Do you think gnash overall stability is currently in a good
> state for lenny?  If not, how viable is it to make it rock-solid by that time?
> 
>> bad first impression of the F/OSS software?
> 
> This is no excuse for not contemplating stability, but in my experience with
> first-time users, they get the worst impression from youtube not working (and
> the response from the browser being utterly confusing) than with browser
> crashes.  They're used to browser crashes after all, and they get the same
> thing when they manage to add Adobe's crap anyway.

I guess, in the light of what I've seen, seems ok for ne installs.

-- 
Regards,
EddyP
=============================================
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein

Message #36 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>

Cc: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:46:13 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 09:50:37AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 
> > Gnash maintainers: Do you think gnash overall stability is currently in a
> > good
> > state for lenny?  If not, how viable is it to make it rock-solid by that
> > time?
> 
> I think it is stable enough to be included in Lenny, but it is not perfect
> yet, as you might imagine :)

So do you think the stabilization process for lenny will efficiently hammer
out any outstanding regressions [1] ?  Also, do you think the increased
visibility / exposition that my proposed change implies would help [2] on this?
(and if so, is this an appropiate time, or is it too early?).

[1] regressions relative to the flash-less setup we had in etch;  i.e. browser
    crashes/hangs or so.  "foo.com not working" is not one of those IMO

[2] Can't speak for others, but I at least would love to see this happen, and
    would gladly help by using Gnash on my daily browser usage, in order to
    at least submit useful debug information if a bug is found.

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #39 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:46:58 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:29:26AM +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
> 
> Note that usually people think of gnash in terms of the „flash plugin 
> for firefox”, and since the gnash package doesn't actually offer that 
> functionality, in tasksel we should talk about "mozilla-plugin-gnash" or 
> "konqueror-plugin-gnash", depending on the task.

Yeah, of course.  I'm lazy when typing; please bear with me ;-)

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #42 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

Cc: 467324@bugs.debian.org, Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, gnash@packages.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:49:57 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 02:06:34PM +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
> >This is no excuse for not contemplating stability, but in my experience 
> >with
> >first-time users, they get the worst impression from youtube not working 
> >(and
> >the response from the browser being utterly confusing) than with browser
> >crashes.  They're used to browser crashes after all, and they get the same
> >thing when they manage to add Adobe's crap anyway.
> 
> I guess, in the light of what I've seen, seems ok for ne installs.

Glad that you agree!

(disabling adblock in my browser ... done. ;-))

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #47 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Cc: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:00:33 +0100 (CET)

--- Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com> escribió:

> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 09:50:37AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> > 
> > > Gnash maintainers: Do you think gnash overall stability is currently in
> a
> > > good
> > > state for lenny?  If not, how viable is it to make it rock-solid by that
> > > time?
> > 
> > I think it is stable enough to be included in Lenny, but it is not perfect
> > yet, as you might imagine :)
> 
> So do you think the stabilization process for lenny will efficiently hammer
> out any outstanding regressions [1] ?  Also, do you think the increased
> visibility / exposition that my proposed change implies would help [2] on
> this?

For the moment I'd prefer to keep it for some time in testing and see how it
works for everyone before adding it to the desktop task, even though it works
quite well now for me and for other people I've asked to try it, it needs more
beta-testing before adding it as default for desktop. Another point of concern
is that it is not really a lightweight plugin (not that the proprietary plugin
 is either, anyway).

Miry



      ______________________________________________ 
¿Con Mascota por primera vez? Sé un mejor Amigo. Entra en Yahoo! Respuestas http://es.answers.yahoo.com/info/welcome

Message #50 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>

Cc: Eddy PetriÈ?or <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:20:44 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 02:00:33PM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 
> For the moment I'd prefer to keep it for some time in testing and see how it
> works for everyone before adding it to the desktop task, even though it works
> quite well now for me and for other people I've asked to try it, it needs more
> beta-testing before adding it as default for desktop. Another point of concern
> is that it is not really a lightweight plugin (not that the proprietary plugin
>  is either, anyway).

Ok.  FWIW, I'll try increasing my use of it and report/debug problems (and I
encourage others to do the same! ;-) would rock to have a flash-capable desktop
in the default install).

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #55 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:28:08 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 01:46:13PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 09:50:37AM +0100, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> > 
> > > Gnash maintainers: Do you think gnash overall stability is currently in a
> > > good
> > > state for lenny?  If not, how viable is it to make it rock-solid by that
> > > time?
> > 
> > I think it is stable enough to be included in Lenny, but it is not perfect
> > yet, as you might imagine :)
> 
> So do you think the stabilization process for lenny will efficiently hammer
> out any outstanding regressions [1] ?  Also, do you think the increased
> visibility / exposition that my proposed change implies would help [2] on this?
> (and if so, is this an appropiate time, or is it too early?).

(I assume this is about installing gnash by default ...)

The negative thing about installing gnash by default is that normal
users won't really notice what they are running and might perceive
debian in general as "being-broken" if they visit a site that has
not-support flash content. Further, there is no way to tell users
easily that there might be a bad, but working solution (nonfree).
Afterall, this the main reason why we still don't ship gnash
preinstalled in ubuntu.

However, instead of doing nothing we setup a plugin database which is
useful for other content types as well. If you think this would be a
viable thing to do for debian, we could include the debian plugins in
our database or setup a new one running on people.debian.org or
somewhere else.

Here some screenshots of the results of the firefox plugin finder
service in ubuntu:

http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/pfs/screens/pfs1.png (video/mpeg)
http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/pfs/screens/pfs3.png (application/x-shockwave-flash)


 - Alexander

Message #58 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:40:05 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 02:28:08PM +0100, Alexander Sack wrote:
> 
> The negative thing about installing gnash by default is that normal
> users won't really notice what they are running and might perceive
> debian in general as "being-broken" if they visit a site that has
> not-support flash content.

You mean, as opposed to the site being broken?  :-)  I think this is a gray
area.  If they install the non-free plugin, and the plugin crashes, they blame
it on the browser (I've seen this happen a gazillon of times).  Etc..

Let's face it: Adobe will keep adding features, and we'll always be behind
them.  This needs to stop at some point.  And it stops the same way we stopped
IE dominance with its ActiveX crap.  We build and deploy an alternative.  When
enough users have removed their dependancy on non-free flash, Adobe will lose
its ability to force new features down our throat.  Would youtube dare to
break gnash compatibility if a significant part of its userbase were using
Gnash?  I think not.  That's the enduring solution to our problem.

> Further, there is no way to tell users
> easily that there might be a bad, but working solution (nonfree).
> Afterall, this the main reason why we still don't ship gnash
> preinstalled in ubuntu.

... and I think Ubuntu could have helped a lot if it had thrown its weight
on free flash.  OLPC did, and it worked; so why not do it ourselves?

> However, instead of doing nothing we setup a plugin database which is
> useful for other content types as well. If you think this would be a
> viable thing to do for debian, we could include the debian plugins in
> our database or setup a new one running on people.debian.org or
> somewhere else.

Now that we're *so* close, I think this effort could be much better spent in
the right direction.

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #63 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:41:07 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 03:40:05PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 02:28:08PM +0100, Alexander Sack wrote:
> > 
> > The negative thing about installing gnash by default is that normal
> > users won't really notice what they are running and might perceive
> > debian in general as "being-broken" if they visit a site that has
> > not-support flash content.
> 
> You mean, as opposed to the site being broken?  :-)  I think this is a gray
> area.  If they install the non-free plugin, and the plugin crashes, they blame
> it on the browser (I've seen this happen a gazillon of times).  Etc..
> 
> Let's face it: Adobe will keep adding features, and we'll always be behind
> them.  This needs to stop at some point.  And it stops the same way we stopped
> IE dominance with its ActiveX crap.  We build and deploy an alternative.  When
> enough users have removed their dependancy on non-free flash, Adobe will lose
> its ability to force new features down our throat.  Would youtube dare to
> break gnash compatibility if a significant part of its userbase were using
> Gnash?  I think not.  That's the enduring solution to our problem.

Yes, but face the truth: unfortunately, neither debian nor linux in
total have enough market power (read: userbase) to make much of a
difference yet. We are getting closer to that point, but that doesn't
mean that its wise to start the battle right away.

So for the time being, its looks far better to put the work into
something that provides users with a superior user experience; for
instance, superior by choice (like what the plugin finder improvement
would do); grow the user base and once we are mature enough to have
real power, throw in our weight to finally free the world.

just my 2 c,

 - Alexander

Message #68 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Eddy Petrișor" <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

To: "Alexander Sack" <asac@jwsdot.com>

Cc: "Robert Millan" <rmh@aybabtu.com>, "Miriam Ruiz" <little_miry@yahoo.es>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, "Simon McVittie" <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, "Alexander Sack" <asac@debian.org>, "Steve Kowalik" <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:48:47 +0200

On 26/02/2008, Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com> wrote:
> Yes, but face the truth: unfortunately, neither debian nor linux in
>  total have enough market power (read: userbase) to make much of a
>  difference yet. We are getting closer to that point, but that doesn't
>  mean that its wise to start the battle right away.
>
>  So for the time being, its looks far better to put the work into
>  something that provides users with a superior user experience; for
>  instance, superior by choice (like what the plugin finder improvement
>  would do); grow the user base and once we are mature enough to have
>  real power, throw in our weight to finally free the world.

I agree with Alexander. Even if gnash was more stable, having a tool t
switch/enable the plugin you want is a lot more desirable than loosing
the battle before it begins.

-- 
Regards,
EddyP
=============================================
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" A.Einstein

Message #73 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com>

To: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>

Cc: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>, Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:17:42 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 05:48:47PM +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
> On 26/02/2008, Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com> wrote:
> > Yes, but face the truth: unfortunately, neither debian nor linux in
> >  total have enough market power (read: userbase) to make much of a
> >  difference yet. We are getting closer to that point, but that doesn't
> >  mean that its wise to start the battle right away.
> >
> >  So for the time being, its looks far better to put the work into
> >  something that provides users with a superior user experience; for
> >  instance, superior by choice (like what the plugin finder improvement
> >  would do); grow the user base and once we are mature enough to have
> >  real power, throw in our weight to finally free the world.
> 
> I agree with Alexander. Even if gnash was more stable, having a tool t
> switch/enable the plugin you want is a lot more desirable than loosing
> the battle before it begins.
> 

Thanks, even more so if you consider that we have swfdec-mozilla which
still didn't loose the free-flash battle. Actually, swfdec does quite
well (and even works better for some use-cases), so ignoring their
work wouldn't be fair either.

 - Alexander

Message #76 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:34:14 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 04:41:07PM +0100, Alexander Sack wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 03:40:05PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 02:28:08PM +0100, Alexander Sack wrote:
> > > 
> > > The negative thing about installing gnash by default is that normal
> > > users won't really notice what they are running and might perceive
> > > debian in general as "being-broken" if they visit a site that has
> > > not-support flash content.
> > 
> > You mean, as opposed to the site being broken?  :-)  I think this is a gray
> > area.  If they install the non-free plugin, and the plugin crashes, they blame
> > it on the browser (I've seen this happen a gazillon of times).  Etc..
> > 
> > Let's face it: Adobe will keep adding features, and we'll always be behind
> > them.  This needs to stop at some point.  And it stops the same way we stopped
> > IE dominance with its ActiveX crap.  We build and deploy an alternative.  When
> > enough users have removed their dependancy on non-free flash, Adobe will lose
> > its ability to force new features down our throat.  Would youtube dare to
> > break gnash compatibility if a significant part of its userbase were using
> > Gnash?  I think not.  That's the enduring solution to our problem.
> 
> Yes, but face the truth: unfortunately, neither debian nor linux in
> total have enough market power (read: userbase) to make much of a
> difference yet. We are getting closer to that point, but that doesn't
> mean that its wise to start the battle right away.
> 
> So for the time being, its looks far better to put the work into
> something that provides users with a superior user experience; for
> instance, superior by choice (like what the plugin finder improvement
> would do); grow the user base and once we are mature enough to have
> real power, throw in our weight to finally free the world.

Presenting the user with a choice they didn't ask for is hardly qualifiable
as a "superior user experience".  It's simply an efficient way to delegate a
problem on the user instead of solving it.  It's like "look, our free flash
player is not so good, but we give you the chance of becoming Adobe's slave
instead! isn't choice great?".

We can do much better.  For one thing, we support youtube already, and we
didn't have to kneel to Adobe in order to get it working.

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #79 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com>

Cc: Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:40:08 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 05:17:42PM +0100, Alexander Sack wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 05:48:47PM +0200, Eddy Petrișor wrote:
> > On 26/02/2008, Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com> wrote:
> > > Yes, but face the truth: unfortunately, neither debian nor linux in
> > >  total have enough market power (read: userbase) to make much of a
> > >  difference yet. We are getting closer to that point, but that doesn't
> > >  mean that its wise to start the battle right away.
> > >
> > >  So for the time being, its looks far better to put the work into
> > >  something that provides users with a superior user experience; for
> > >  instance, superior by choice (like what the plugin finder improvement
> > >  would do); grow the user base and once we are mature enough to have
> > >  real power, throw in our weight to finally free the world.
> > 
> > I agree with Alexander. Even if gnash was more stable, having a tool t
> > switch/enable the plugin you want is a lot more desirable than loosing
> > the battle before it begins.
> > 
> 
> Thanks, even more so if you consider that we have swfdec-mozilla which
> still didn't loose the free-flash battle. Actually, swfdec does quite
> well (and even works better for some use-cases), so ignoring their
> work wouldn't be fair either.

So, why don't we do the same for every component in the desktop task?  Or even,
why don't we add a GNOME/KDE/Xfce choice template in the default install?

Does our average newbie (I'm talking about the one that isn't familiar with
manual package selection) have enough information to make this kind of
decisions?

If you want to discuss whether swfdec is more appropiate than gnash as the
default option, then please do that, based on its own merit, like we do for
everything else.

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #82 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Alexander Sack <asac@jwsdot.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little_miry@yahoo.es>, Eddy Petrișor <eddy.petrisor@gmail.com>, gnash@packages.debian.org, Simon McVittie <smcv@ianadd.pseudorandom.co.uk>, Alexander Sack <asac@debian.org>, Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: include gnash in desktop?

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:06:00 +0100

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 04:41:07PM +0100, Alexander Sack wrote:
> 
> So for the time being, its looks far better to put the work into
> something that provides users with a superior user experience; for
> instance, superior by choice (like what the plugin finder improvement
> would do); grow the user base and once we are mature enough to have
> real power, throw in our weight to finally free the world.

Btw, in case you really think by partnering with Adobe we'll somehow gain
enough weight to later liberate ourselves, you have to see what is coming:

  http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/02/adobe-pushes-drm-flash

  "Users may also have to upgrade their Flash Player software (and open
  source alternatives like Gnash, which has been making rapid progress,
  may be unable to play the encrypted streams at all)"

Scary, really scary.  While we discuss about tools that give user the choice
of giving up on freedom, Adobe prepares their next strike.  Either we gain
critical mass of NON-ADOBE flash real soon, or we're screwed.

-- 
Robert Millan

<GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call!
<DRM> What use is a phone call… if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)

Message #87 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>

To: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:13:02 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> What do you think about #467324 ? Do you think it will make sense to
> include Gnash in the Desktop task?
> 
> Gnash is quite stable now, and even though not all Adobe Flash is
> supported yet, it can be quite an improvement over not having any
> flash player installed. As Adobe is adding DRM support in future Flash
> spect, probably it won't be possible to circunvent those protection
> measures in the future legally, and thus it can be quite important to
> increase the user base of Gnash users and at some point in the future
> maybe content designers might give it some attention.
> 
> On the other side, as not all the Flash contents are fully working
> (Youtube is working properly, anyway, which is one of the most
> demanded Flash contents), it can be argued if end users might reject
> it if it's shipped too early in Desktop. Probably all the Adobe specs
> won't be ever supported, as Adobe keeps adding stuff at the same time
> and there's no standards body organization taking care of that.

I've had better luck with swfdec. It supports google video too.
It also requires flash be clicked on before it will load it, which is a
nice way to avoid flash ads and flash on unsupported sites.

-- 
see shy jo

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #92 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Miriam Ruiz" <little.miry@gmail.com>

To: "Joey Hess" <joey@kitenet.net>

Cc: 467324@bugs.debian.org, "Robert Millan" <rmh@aybabtu.com>, manty@debian.org

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:28:57 +0200

2008/4/22, Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>:
> Miriam Ruiz wrote:
>  > What do you think about #467324 ? Do you think it will make sense to
>  > include Gnash in the Desktop task?
>  >
>  > Gnash is quite stable now, and even though not all Adobe Flash is
>  > supported yet, it can be quite an improvement over not having any
>  > flash player installed. As Adobe is adding DRM support in future Flash
>  > spect, probably it won't be possible to circunvent those protection
>  > measures in the future legally, and thus it can be quite important to
>  > increase the user base of Gnash users and at some point in the future
>  > maybe content designers might give it some attention.
>  >
>  > On the other side, as not all the Flash contents are fully working
>  > (Youtube is working properly, anyway, which is one of the most
>  > demanded Flash contents), it can be argued if end users might reject
>  > it if it's shipped too early in Desktop. Probably all the Adobe specs
>  > won't be ever supported, as Adobe keeps adding stuff at the same time
>  > and there's no standards body organization taking care of that.
>
> I've had better luck with swfdec. It supports google video too.
>  It also requires flash be clicked on before it will load it, which is a
>  nice way to avoid flash ads and flash on unsupported sites.

swfdec might be an option too. For what I know, Gnash supports more
Flash than swfdec, but swfdec is indeed stable and what it does, it
does good. swfdec is, AFAIK, more a one person's project, while Gnash
has 5 full time developers working for it, and has all the support
from FSF, which is more or less quite a guarantee for the future
evolution.

In any case, I'm adding Santiago Garcia Mantinan (swfdec maintainer)
to the Cc  list to see what he might think about it. It would be nice
to have a Flash player installed by default in Desktop, whichever is
best. Maybe we could want to compare benchmarks or something like
that.

Greetings,
Miry

Message #95 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:34:31 +0200

Hi,

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 01:13:02PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> > What do you think about #467324 ? Do you think it will make sense to
> > include Gnash in the Desktop task?
> > 
> > Gnash is quite stable now, and even though not all Adobe Flash is
> > supported yet, it can be quite an improvement over not having any
> > flash player installed. As Adobe is adding DRM support in future Flash
> > spect, probably it won't be possible to circunvent those protection
> > measures in the future legally, and thus it can be quite important to
> > increase the user base of Gnash users and at some point in the future
> > maybe content designers might give it some attention.
> > 
> > On the other side, as not all the Flash contents are fully working
> > (Youtube is working properly, anyway, which is one of the most
> > demanded Flash contents), it can be argued if end users might reject
> > it if it's shipped too early in Desktop. Probably all the Adobe specs
> > won't be ever supported, as Adobe keeps adding stuff at the same time
> > and there's no standards body organization taking care of that.
> 
> I've had better luck with swfdec. It supports google video too.
> It also requires flash be clicked on before it will load it, which is a
> nice way to avoid flash ads and flash on unsupported sites.

My understanding is that both gnash and swfdec are currently robust pieces
of software.  I'd be glad to see either being part of our default desktop.

That said, I'd like to point out that gnash seems much more popular (when
compared to its swfdec equivalents in sid):

3600  gnash                           1730   641   618   470     1 (Miriam Ruiz)
6792  libswfdec-0.5-5                  477     1    11    22   443 (Santiago Garcia Mantinan)
10380 libswfdec-0.6-90                 208    76     0   119    13 (Santiago Garcia Mantinan)

-- 
Robert Millan

"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
 legal evasion of the license [...].  That's the provision in section
 1 regarding keys. [...]  We say one thing: when you sell somebody a
 home... give him the keys"  -- Eben Moglen on GPLv3

Message #98 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>

Cc: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, manty@debian.org

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:37:46 +0200

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:28:57PM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> [...], and has all the support
> from FSF, which is more or less quite a guarantee for the future
> evolution.

Last I heard, they also have support of some sort from EFF and OLPC:

  http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9454721484.html

-- 
Robert Millan

"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
 legal evasion of the license [...].  That's the provision in section
 1 regarding keys. [...]  We say one thing: when you sell somebody a
 home... give him the keys"  -- Eben Moglen on GPLv3

Message #103 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

To: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>

Cc: 467324@bugs.debian.org, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>, manty@debian.org

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:42:24 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> swfdec might be an option too. For what I know, Gnash supports more
> Flash than swfdec,

How long have you used each? (I assume you've used gnash a lot since you
maintain it..) I've only tried each for a few hours myself, about once
per month since January, as I use websites with flash that neither
supports, but my general impression is that swfdec supports more sites,
including the previously mentioned google video.

> but swfdec is indeed stable and what it does, it
> does good. swfdec is, AFAIK, more a one person's project, while Gnash
> has 5 full time developers working for it, and has all the support
> from FSF, which is more or less quite a guarantee for the future
> evolution.

Benjamin Otte is definitely doing the lion's share of work on swfdec,
but there are other developers too. Is the FSF funding 5 fulltime
developers?

> In any case, I'm adding Santiago Garcia Mantinan (swfdec maintainer)
> to the Cc  list to see what he might think about it. It would be nice
> to have a Flash player installed by default in Desktop, whichever is
> best. Maybe we could want to compare benchmarks or something like
> that.

I gather that gnome will be (or is already) including swfdec-gnome (not
swfdec-mozilla) as a standard component.
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2008-January/msg00001.html

Also, Fedora has been facing the same issues and decision.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Swfdec

Here is a candid assisement of swfdec's suitablility they solicited from
Benjamin.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-January/msg00084.html

-- 
see shy jo

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #108 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:58:28 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Robert Millan wrote:
> My understanding is that both gnash and swfdec are currently robust pieces
> of software.  I'd be glad to see either being part of our default desktop.

I'd generally agree, although I think we'll need to do a good job of
documenting that the nonfree flash is not included by default, and how
users can install it.

> That said, I'd like to point out that gnash seems much more popular (when
> compared to its swfdec equivalents in sid):
> 
> 3600  gnash                           1730   641   618   470     1 (Miriam Ruiz)
> 6792  libswfdec-0.5-5                  477     1    11    22   443 (Santiago Garcia Mantinan)
> 10380 libswfdec-0.6-90                 208    76     0   119    13 (Santiago Garcia Mantinan)

Looking at just the browser plugins:
http://people.debian.org/~igloo/popcon-graphs/index.php?packages=swfdec-mozilla+mozilla-plugin-gnash&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1

So they're both being adopted at the same rate by users, and gnash has a
year's head start. 

And the adoption and rate of adoption of both is still quite small.
Compare with mplayer's 19 thousand reported installs in the same time period.
http://people.debian.org/~igloo/popcon-graphs/index.php?packages=swfdec-mozilla+mozilla-plugin-gnash++mplayer&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1

-- 
see shy jo

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #113 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Santiago Garcia Mantinan <manty@debian.org>

To: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:41:44 +0200

> How long have you used each? (I assume you've used gnash a lot since you
> maintain it..) I've only tried each for a few hours myself, about once
> per month since January, as I use websites with flash that neither
> supports, but my general impression is that swfdec supports more sites,
> including the previously mentioned google video.

I cannot talk about gnash, I tried it a long long time ago and it
disappointed me a lot as almost nothing was working. I know that since then
it has become much better. I know that developpers of gnash and swfdec talk
a lot and share ideas and tests and things like that, both teams seem to be
quite cooperative.

What got my attention on swfdec was that it was the first on supporting
youtube and most of all its zero crash policy.

> I gather that gnome will be (or is already) including swfdec-gnome (not
> swfdec-mozilla) as a standard component.
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2008-January/msg00001.html

For what I know version 2.22 comes with swfdec-gnome, that is why the
version numbering of swfdec-gnome got changed to match gnome's and current
is 2.22 also.

Anyway... I really think that installing either of them (maybe a recommends
with both as alternatives) would be a good solution. I'd say that swfdec is
a better solution for that "need to click to view" feature, as it seems
safer (security thinking) than displaying everything by default.

Regards...
-- 
Manty/BestiaTester -> http://manty.net

Message #116 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, manty@debian.org

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:15:04 +0200

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 04:42:24PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> 
> Here is a candid assisement of swfdec's suitablility they solicited from
> Benjamin.
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-January/msg00084.html

Looking into that link, there seem to be two reasons Benjamin gives that speak
in favour of Gnash:

"Swfdec has not had a lot of exposure yet"

  (Gnash is having huge deployments as part of the OLPC laptop distribution)

"Another issue coupled with the above is that the Swfdec plugin runs in-process
in the browser. [1] This of course means that when Swfdec crashes, your browser
is gone, too."

  (Gnash runs as a standalone process)

I think the "click before run" feature in a way makes stability a hidden
factor.  It'd be trivial to implement the same feature in Gnash, if desired,
but I think the result is that it makes Swfdec look more stable in comparison,
which could be somewhat deceitful.

-- 
Robert Millan

"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
 legal evasion of the license [...].  That's the provision in section
 1 regarding keys. [...]  We say one thing: when you sell somebody a
 home... give him the keys"  -- Eben Moglen on GPLv3

Message #119 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:17:25 +0200

[ Resending with a working address for Santiago ]

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 04:42:24PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> 
> Here is a candid assisement of swfdec's suitablility they solicited from
> Benjamin.
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-January/msg00084.html

Looking into that link, there seem to be two reasons Benjamin gives that speak
in favour of Gnash:

"Swfdec has not had a lot of exposure yet"

  (Gnash is having huge deployments as part of the OLPC laptop distribution)

"Another issue coupled with the above is that the Swfdec plugin runs in-process
in the browser. [1] This of course means that when Swfdec crashes, your browser
is gone, too."

  (Gnash runs as a standalone process)

I think the "click before run" feature in a way makes stability a hidden
factor.  It'd be trivial to implement the same feature in Gnash, if desired,
but I think the result is that it makes Swfdec look more stable in comparison,
which could be somewhat deceitful.

-- 
Robert Millan

"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
 legal evasion of the license [...].  That's the provision in section
 1 regarding keys. [...]  We say one thing: when you sell somebody a
 home... give him the keys"  -- Eben Moglen on GPLv3

Message #124 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Per Olofsson <pelle@debian.org>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:07:26 +0200

Robert Millan wrote:
> I think the "click before run" feature in a way makes stability a hidden
> factor.  It'd be trivial to implement the same feature in Gnash, if desired,
> but I think the result is that it makes Swfdec look more stable in comparison,
> which could be somewhat deceitful.

Yet, there are tons of unwanted flash animations on the Internet. I think having
a "click before run" feature is a large benefit, both in terms of stability and
security. A program as complex as a flash player is bound to have bugs. Not
playing any animations unless the user clicks on them limits the exposure
considerably.

-- 
Pelle

Message #127 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Per Olofsson <pelle@debian.org>

Cc: 467324@bugs.debian.org, Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:31:54 +0200

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 01:07:26PM +0200, Per Olofsson wrote:
> Robert Millan wrote:
> > I think the "click before run" feature in a way makes stability a hidden
> > factor.  It'd be trivial to implement the same feature in Gnash, if desired,
> > but I think the result is that it makes Swfdec look more stable in comparison,
> > which could be somewhat deceitful.
> 
> Yet, there are tons of unwanted flash animations on the Internet. I think having
> a "click before run" feature is a large benefit, both in terms of stability and
> security. A program as complex as a flash player is bound to have bugs. Not
> playing any animations unless the user clicks on them limits the exposure
> considerably.

Now that I check, Gnash has that feature already:

  Edit -> Preferences -> Player -> Start Gnash in pause mode

-- 
Robert Millan

"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
 legal evasion of the license [...].  That's the provision in section
 1 regarding keys. [...]  We say one thing: when you sell somebody a
 home... give him the keys"  -- Eben Moglen on GPLv3

Message #132 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Santiago Garcia Mantinan <manty@debian.org>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Cc: Per Olofsson <pelle@debian.org>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:50:36 +0200

> Now that I check, Gnash has that feature already:
> 
>   Edit -> Preferences -> Player -> Start Gnash in pause mode

And is it activated by default? I think it would be good if that was the
case, as otherwise most people will not realize that this feature is there,
like it happened to you untill you looked for it.

Regards...
-- 
Manty/BestiaTester -> http://manty.net

Message #137 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Guido Günther <agx@sigxcpu.org>

To: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org

Cc: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>, manty@debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:59:23 +0200

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:28:57PM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> swfdec might be an option too. For what I know, Gnash supports more
> Flash than swfdec, but swfdec is indeed stable and what it does, it
> does good. swfdec is, AFAIK, more a one person's project, while Gnash
Fedora picking swfdec for FC9 might be another data point: 
 http://fedoraproject.org/f9-beta-relnotes
Swfdec proved to be much more stable than gnash for me on ppc. I have it
installed by default now since quiet some time.
 -- Guido

Message #142 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Cc: Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:14:50 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Robert Millan wrote:
> Looking into that link, there seem to be two reasons Benjamin gives that speak
> in favour of Gnash:
> 
> "Swfdec has not had a lot of exposure yet"
> 
>   (Gnash is having huge deployments as part of the OLPC laptop distribution)

Hmm, I'd not consider it huge. If it is huge it's huge with a lot of
users who are unlikely to file bug reports.

> "Another issue coupled with the above is that the Swfdec plugin runs in-process
> in the browser. [1] This of course means that when Swfdec crashes, your browser
> is gone, too."
> 
>   (Gnash runs as a standalone process)

That's a very nice feature. For more than crash recovery too; it's nice
to see that some flash video is killing your cpu in top. It's nice
to be able to kill -9 it. Or to download the swf and run it by hand.

> I think the "click before run" feature in a way makes stability a hidden
> factor.  It'd be trivial to implement the same feature in Gnash, if desired,
> but I think the result is that it makes Swfdec look more stable in comparison,
> which could be somewhat deceitful.

I like it because it avoids flash ads and flash crap, which is at least
50% of the flash I see.

-- 
see shy jo

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #147 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

To: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Cc: Per Olofsson <pelle@debian.org>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:16:45 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Robert Millan wrote:
> Now that I check, Gnash has that feature already:
> 
>   Edit -> Preferences -> Player -> Start Gnash in pause mode

This could use some UI love (have to right-click to find play in the
context menu).

-- 
see shy jo

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #150 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

Cc: Per Olofsson <pelle@debian.org>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:02:09 +0200

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:16:45PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Robert Millan wrote:
> > Now that I check, Gnash has that feature already:
> > 
> >   Edit -> Preferences -> Player -> Start Gnash in pause mode
> 
> This could use some UI love (have to right-click to find play in the
> context menu).

I'll have a look at that tomorrow.  Sounds easy enough for me to do it ;-)

-- 
Robert Millan

"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
 legal evasion of the license [...].  That's the provision in section
 1 regarding keys. [...]  We say one thing: when you sell somebody a
 home... give him the keys"  -- Eben Moglen on GPLv3

Message #155 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Daniel Dickinson <cshore@wightman.ca>

To: debian-boot@lists.debian.org

Cc: Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net>, 467324@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:53:21 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:13:02 -0400
Joey Hess <joey@kitenet.net> wrote:

> Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> > What do you think about #467324 ? Do you think it will make sense to
> > include Gnash in the Desktop task?
> > 

> > On the other side, as not all the Flash contents are fully working
> > (Youtube is working properly, anyway, which is one of the most
> > demanded Flash contents), it can be argued if end users might reject

Is that supposed to say isn't working properly?  I just tested gnash on
youtube (because it is so commonly requested; it's not of particlar
interested to me and up to now I've just not used flash at all because
I only knew about gnash and it didn't support any site I wanted) and all
I get is the replay or share buttons that are supposed to show up after
the video, not the video itself (this is gnash in lenny, which ATM is
the same as the one in sid), while swfdec-mozilla in lenny does work.
OTOH neither works with the site I actually am interested in.
Fortunately for that site their audio podcast provides the same
information so it's not critical, but would rather just be nice to be
able to see the video.

> > it if it's shipped too early in Desktop. Probably all the Adobe
> > specs won't be ever supported, as Adobe keeps adding stuff at the
> > same time and there's no standards body organization taking care of
> > that.
> 
> I've had better luck with swfdec. It supports google video too.
> It also requires flash be clicked on before it will load it, which is
> a nice way to avoid flash ads and flash on unsupported sites.
> 

Regards,

Daniel

-- 
And that's my crabbing done for the day.  Got it out of the way early, 
now I have the rest of the afternoon to sniff fragrant tea-roses or 
strangle cute bunnies or something.   -- Michael Devore
GnuPG Key Fingerprint 86 F5 81 A5 D4 2E 1F 1C      http://gnupg.org
No more sea shells:  Daniel's Weblog    http://cshore.wordpress.com

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, attachment)]

Message #158 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

Cc: Per Olofsson <pelle@debian.org>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:39:44 +0200

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:02:09PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> > 
> > This could use some UI love (have to right-click to find play in the
> > context menu).
> 
> I'll have a look at that tomorrow.  Sounds easy enough for me to do it ;-)

Woops, easier said than done.  I didn't remember I'm clueless about both
C++ and GTK+.  Anyway, here is it:

  http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?23038

Please test if you can.

-- 
Robert Millan

"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
 legal evasion of the license [...].  That's the provision in section
 1 regarding keys. [...]  We say one thing: when you sell somebody a
 home... give him the keys"  -- Eben Moglen on GPLv3

Message #163 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Miriam Ruiz" <little.miry@gmail.com>

To: "Robert Millan" <rmh@aybabtu.com>

Cc: "Joey Hess" <joeyh@debian.org>, "Per Olofsson" <pelle@debian.org>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:01:31 +0200

2008/4/24, Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>:

>   http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?23038
>
>  Please test if you can.

Cool!! I´ll test it as soon as I can, and add it to the Gnash set of
patches (I´m spending the weekend in Madrid)

Thanks!! :)

Greetings,
Miry

Message #166 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Robert Millan <rmh@aybabtu.com>

To: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

Cc: Per Olofsson <pelle@debian.org>, 467324@bugs.debian.org, Miriam Ruiz <little.miry@gmail.com>, sgm@manty.net

Subject: Re: Bug#467324: Gnash in Desktop task?

Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:34:26 +0200

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 06:39:44PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> 
> Woops, easier said than done.  I didn't remember I'm clueless about both
> C++ and GTK+.  Anyway, here is it:
> 
>   http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?23038

I uploaded 0.8.2-2 this afternoon, which includes that feature.

(it's also merged in upstream)

-- 
Robert Millan

"The technological evasion of the license is as unacceptable as the
 legal evasion of the license [...].  That's the provision in section
 1 regarding keys. [...]  We say one thing: when you sell somebody a
 home... give him the keys"  -- Eben Moglen on GPLv3

Message #171 received at 467324@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

To: control@bugs.debian.org

Cc: 467324@bugs.debian.org, 484121@bugs.debian.org

Subject: setting package to tasksel tasksel-data, tagging 467324, tagging 484121

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:41:23 -0400

# Automatically generated email from bts, devscripts version 2.10.30
# via tagpending 
#
# tasksel (2.75) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
#
#  * gnome-desktop: Make gnome the Key package for this task. Needs
#    meta-gnome2 2.22.2~2, which syncs gnome to the past contents of the task.
#    Thanks to Josselin Mouette for the cooperation. Closes: #484121
#  * swfdec-mozilla is included as a dependency of gnome; provisionally
#    follow through by including it in the desktop task as well.
#    Closes: #467324
#

package tasksel tasksel-data
tags 467324 + pending
tags 484121 + pending

Message #178 received at 467324-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

To: 467324-close@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#467324: fixed in tasksel 2.75

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:32:07 +0000

Source: tasksel
Source-Version: 2.75

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
tasksel, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive:

task-overrides_2.75_all.tar.gz byhand
tasksel-data_2.75_all.deb
  to pool/main/t/tasksel/tasksel-data_2.75_all.deb
tasksel_2.75.dsc
  to pool/main/t/tasksel/tasksel_2.75.dsc
tasksel_2.75.tar.gz
  to pool/main/t/tasksel/tasksel_2.75.tar.gz
tasksel_2.75_all.deb
  to pool/main/t/tasksel/tasksel_2.75_all.deb



A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 467324@bugs.debian.org,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> (supplier of updated tasksel package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing ftpmaster@debian.org)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:06:39 -0400
Source: tasksel
Binary: tasksel tasksel-data
Architecture: source all
Version: 2.75
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>
Changed-By: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
Description: 
 tasksel    - Tool for selecting tasks for installation on Debian systems
 tasksel-data - Official tasks used for installation of Debian systems
Closes: 431173 467324 481464 484121 484748 484990 485000 485655 485750 485934 491077 491669
Changes: 
 tasksel (2.75) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   Please note that this upload should not be allowed to reach testing before
   meta-gnome2 2.22.2~2 does. However, I've been waiting on that for exactly
   one month, and this version of tasksel does need to get into lenny for the
   release.
 .
   [ Joey Hess ]
   * Split out <lang>-{kde,gnome}-desktop tasks. Closes: #431173
   * Add uim-applet-{kde,gnome} to the japanese desktop tasks, as
     Kenshi suggests.
   * Add libgl1-mesa-dri to the desktop task. Closes: #481464
   * Use debhelper v7; rules file simplification.
     - Removed commit target from rules file. (Doubt anyone uses it.)
     - DEBUG=0 has no effect when building anymore, removed that from rules
       file.
   * Drop empty /usr/lib/tasksel/packages from tasksel-data.
   * Ignore .git directory in places that ignore .svn.
   * Tasksel has moved to a git repository.
   * Add Vcs-Git field.
   * serbian-desktop: l10n-sr-cs is now -sr
   * Swap out gnome-cups-manager for system-config-printer, following
     the lead of the gnome package.
   * system-config-printer also superscedes foomatic-gui in gnome-desktop.
   * Add gnome-games, used to be pulled in by g-d-e, but no longer, and we
     definitly want it.
   * Add libpam-gnome-keyring to gnome desktop, following lead of the gnome
     package.
   * Add back gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly since totem is back to using
     gstreamer.
   * Remove gnomebaker. Add serpentine to handle audio CD burning. Joss says
     that data CD burning can be handled by nautilus-cd-burner.
   * eject and alsa do not need to be key in the desktop task.
 .
   [ Kenshi Muto ]
   * Move jfbterm and unifont packages out of Key for the japanese task.
 .
   [ Christian Perrier ]
   * No longer install console-cyrillic in the cyrillic task. Closes: #484748
   * Correct the code for Belarusian in the cyrillic task
   * Correct spelling of "GNOME" in tasks descriptions
   * Correct spelling of "Brazilian Portuguese" in relevant tasks
   * Replace 'NetBIOS' by 'CIFS' in the file-server task description
     Unfuzzy translations by doing 's/NetBIOS\b/CIFS' on them.
     Bengali and Hindi translations marked fuzzy as they had no
     occurrence of 'NetBIOS' in the translated strings.
 .
   [ Per Olofsson ]
   * Remove hpijs-ppds from desktop and print-server. hpijs can now
     automatically generate ppd's which are visible in CUPS.
     Closes: #484990
   * Add northern-sami task with hunspell and hunspell-se.
   * Make northern-sami-* short descriptions consistent.
 .
   [ Debconf Translations ]
   * Marathi updated
 .
   [ Translations of tasks ]
   * Use of "GNOME" instead of "Gnome" enforced in all translations
   * Japanese updated
   * French updated
   * Galician updated
   * Vietnamese updated. Closes: #485750
   * Thai updated
   * Bulgarian updated
   * Portuguese updated. Closes: #485934
   * Marathi updated
 .
   [ Joey Hess ]
   * Move myspell/hunspell from base language to lang-desktop tasks,
     as it is used by gui programs.
   * Exclude hidden tasks from translation, since there is very little point
     in translating these and it causes much translator load, and bloats
     tasksel. For now, all tasks in Section l10n are excluded, which excludes
     the right set, currently. (With apologies to hard-working translators
     for not having done this sooner.)
 .
   [ Theppitak Karoonboonyanan ]
   * Update thai-desktop task:
     - Drop gtk-im-libthai. Only thai-gnome-desktop needs it.
 .
   [ Joey Hess ]
   * kde-desktop: include kdesuso. Closes: #485655
   * gnome-desktop: Make gnome the Key package for this task. Needs
     meta-gnome2 2.22.2~2, which syncs gnome to the past contents of the task.
     Thanks to Josselin Mouette for the cooperation. Closes: #484121
   * swfdec-mozilla is included as a dependency of gnome; provisionally
     follow through by including it in the desktop task as well.
     Closes: #467324
 .
   [ Eddy Petri?or ]
   * Convert Romanian translations to use the correct diacritics
 .
   [ Joey Hess ]
   * finnish: Remove libenchant-voikko, add voikko-fi. Closes: #491077
   * kde-destkop: Add kpowersave, a recommends of kdeutils. Closes: #491669
   * print-server, desktop: remove foomatic-db-{engine,hpijs,gutenprint},
     which cups apparently does not use, instead using foomatic-filters-ppds.
     Thanks, Per Olofsson for investigation. Closes: #485000
Checksums-Sha1: 
 324f34456bad03c6791e3e9010fc0432f197f079 857 tasksel_2.75.dsc
 9c536afe0fd244b591e6287479dbbb8669682c85 494385 tasksel_2.75.tar.gz
 3e709f98428cad85b13f9118f0b45e8aa2064505 83362 tasksel_2.75_all.deb
 309c190239b7fc9f589e1ea7c120d0f57cb07868 95392 tasksel-data_2.75_all.deb
 ba1439a4d42e21cbdfabc0760e30ac8a2d561054 4498 task-overrides_2.75_all.tar.gz
Checksums-Sha256: 
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 071589789774d274bf551cdddd0e6def9dc3fe0906627a9ab8d6a6a125f34667 4498 task-overrides_2.75_all.tar.gz
Files: 
 9843273cac088912902646d1b9777199 857 admin important tasksel_2.75.dsc
 fc0db0c528510e0c031db418cbafbe1f 494385 admin important tasksel_2.75.tar.gz
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 8ac3c4bd672589ce5f297ef2e8cb6406 95392 admin important tasksel-data_2.75_all.deb
 d5d333f0356521b1e1248e842adcf74e 4498 byhand - task-overrides_2.75_all.tar.gz

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