Debian Bug report logs - #464400
ITP: opencascade -- CAE platform library and scripting engine

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: Debian Bugs <submit@bugs.debian.org>

Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

Subject: ITP: opencascade -- CAE platform library and scripting engine

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:56:02 -0500

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

Package name: opencascade
Version: 6.2.0
Author: Open Cascade SAS (OCC), a French software services company
URL: http://www.opencascade.org/
License: Open CASCADE Technology Public License, includes triangle with non-free source
Description: CAE platform library and scripting engine

Greetings,

I am packaging OpenCASCADE, a powerful computer-aided engineering (CAE)
platform library and scripting engine.  It includes computer-aided
design (CAD) and visualization features, as well as some meshing for
analysis.  It also comes with its own scripting engine.

The license appears to be free, though upstream interprets it as
non-free, and the source includes the non-free "triangle" program.  See
http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2007/12/msg00066.html for details.

The current package is at http://lyre.mit.edu/~powell/opencascade/ .  I
plan to split the package using Jason Kraftcheck's scripts (see
http://lists.debian.org/debian-science/2008/01/msg00013.html and
http://lists.debian.org/debian-science/2008/01/msg00024.html for
details) before uploading.

This is a build-depend for Salomé which I ITP'd (bug 457075).

-Adam
-- 
GPG fingerprint: D54D 1AEE B11C CE9B A02B  C5DD 526F 01E8 564E E4B6

Engineering consulting with open source tools
http://www.opennovation.com/

Message #12 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Teemu Ikonen" <tpikonen@gmail.com>

To: 464400@bugs.debian.org, "Adam C Powell IV" <hazelsct@debian.org>

Subject: opencascade packages

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:56:56 +0200

Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
> I am packaging OpenCASCADE, a powerful computer-aided engineering (CAE)
...
> The current package is at http://lyre.mit.edu/~powell/opencascade/ .

Hi,

Has there been any progress on getting these packages to the archive lately?

Is the licensing situation still unclear?

Best,

Teemu

Message #17 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: Teemu Ikonen <tpikonen@gmail.com>, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Cc: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: opencascade packages

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:23:47 -0400

On Thu, 2008-04-17 at 18:56 +0200, Teemu Ikonen wrote:
> Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
> > I am packaging OpenCASCADE, a powerful computer-aided engineering (CAE)
> ...
> > The current package is at http://lyre.mit.edu/~powell/opencascade/ .
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has there been any progress on getting these packages to the archive lately?
> 
> Is the licensing situation still unclear?

Thank you for inquiring.  The licensing situation is unclear, but that's
something for Debian to worry about after upload, I don't think I'll get
a straight answer before that.

I haven't had much time for this recently, but my todo list consists of:

      * Switch to the tarball used by FreeBSD (and soon Gentoo) at:
        ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/thierry/
      * Conduct a thorough license/copyright "audit" of the tarball to
        make sure we have everything documented in the copyright file.
      * Upload to non-free, will probably take several iterations to get
        in.
      * Separate out the non-free bits.
      * Upload to main with non-free parts in separate package, again
        will probably take several iterations.
      * Use Jason Kraftcheck's scripts to separate it into a few
        packages, and re-upload.

Are you interested in helping with any of the above?

-Adam
-- 
GPG fingerprint: D54D 1AEE B11C CE9B A02B  C5DD 526F 01E8 564E E4B6

Engineering consulting with open source tools
http://www.opennovation.com/

Message #22 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Teemu Ikonen" <tpikonen@gmail.com>

To: "Adam C Powell IV" <hazelsct@debian.org>

Cc: 464400@bugs.debian.org, debian-science@lists.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: opencascade packages

Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:25:04 +0200

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
>  I haven't had much time for this recently, but my todo list consists of:
>
>       * Switch to the tarball used by FreeBSD (and soon Gentoo) at:
>         ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/thierry/
>       * Conduct a thorough license/copyright "audit" of the tarball to
>         make sure we have everything documented in the copyright file.
>       * Upload to non-free, will probably take several iterations to get
>         in.
>       * Separate out the non-free bits.
>       * Upload to main with non-free parts in separate package, again
>         will probably take several iterations.
>       * Use Jason Kraftcheck's scripts to separate it into a few
>         packages, and re-upload.

Sounds like a good plan in general, but will the FreeBDS tarball stay
up to date with the upstream version? Well, maybe it's too early to
worry about that.

>  Are you interested in helping with any of the above?

Yes, but I can't guarantee I can spend much time on opencascade. I'm
interested in free tools for 3D CAD, and as a first step I would like
to be able to display a 3D models from IGES files. Apparently FreeCAD
( http://juergen-riegel.net/FreeCAD/Docu/index.php?title=Main_Page )
can do this, but it needs Opencascade to compile.

If you get a repository in Alioth (I prefer git or bzr, but can work
with other systems as well), I can try to do something.

Teemu

Message #27 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: Teemu Ikonen <tpikonen@gmail.com>, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Cc: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: opencascade packages

Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:59:29 -0400

On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 21:25 +0200, Teemu Ikonen wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
> >  I haven't had much time for this recently, but my todo list consists of:
> >
> >       * Switch to the tarball used by FreeBSD (and soon Gentoo) at:
> >         ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/thierry/
> >       * Conduct a thorough license/copyright "audit" of the tarball to
> >         make sure we have everything documented in the copyright file.
> >       * Upload to non-free, will probably take several iterations to get
> >         in.
> >       * Separate out the non-free bits.
> >       * Upload to main with non-free parts in separate package, again
> >         will probably take several iterations.
> >       * Use Jason Kraftcheck's scripts to separate it into a few
> >         packages, and re-upload.
> 
> Sounds like a good plan in general, but will the FreeBDS tarball stay
> up to date with the upstream version? Well, maybe it's too early to
> worry about that.

Apparently they've kept up with the last few releases, so it seems a
good bet they'll keep on.

> >  Are you interested in helping with any of the above?
> 
> Yes, but I can't guarantee I can spend much time on opencascade. I'm
> interested in free tools for 3D CAD, and as a first step I would like
> to be able to display a 3D models from IGES files. Apparently FreeCAD
> ( http://juergen-riegel.net/FreeCAD/Docu/index.php?title=Main_Page )
> can do this, but it needs Opencascade to compile.
> 
> If you get a repository in Alioth (I prefer git or bzr, but can work
> with other systems as well), I can try to do something.

Okay, I'll post to the bug and debian-science when a repository is
available.  In the meantime, feel free to use the package on lyre.

-Adam
-- 
GPG fingerprint: D54D 1AEE B11C CE9B A02B  C5DD 526F 01E8 564E E4B6

Engineering consulting with open source tools
http://www.opennovation.com/

Message #32 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda <leo@alaxarxa.net>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>, Teemu Ikonen <tpikonen@gmail.com>, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: opencascade packages

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:09:48 +0200

A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 21:25 +0200, Teemu Ikonen wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> 
wrote:
> > >  I haven't had much time for this recently, but my todo list consists
> > > of:
> > >
> > >       * Switch to the tarball used by FreeBSD (and soon Gentoo) at:
> > >        
> > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/thierry/ *
> > > Conduct a thorough license/copyright "audit" of the tarball to make
> > > sure we have everything documented in the copyright file. * Upload to
> > > non-free, will probably take several iterations to get in.
> > >       * Separate out the non-free bits.
> > >       * Upload to main with non-free parts in separate package, again
> > >         will probably take several iterations.
> > >       * Use Jason Kraftcheck's scripts to separate it into a few
> > >         packages, and re-upload.
> >
> > Sounds like a good plan in general, but will the FreeBDS tarball stay
> > up to date with the upstream version? Well, maybe it's too early to
> > worry about that.

I have followed this thread with a lot of interest. I don't think the 
OpenCascade was free in the way to put it in debian, so to me it's a bit .... 
I don't know in a polite words ...
<unpolite>
touch my b..
</unpolite>

than you spend a lot of hours in package some huge soft to nonfree. Well, I 
know, they have their rights. But this kind of half-license half-open 
half-nonfree are more problematic (and close) than open (free) and feasible.

Howeber, as all in this life has a lot of buts:
- if we have opencascade, another great free soft that use OpenCascade could 
be inside.
- if we have opencascade, maybe they want to relax their license ....

I don't know... just my feelings in this. We can try to begin a campain to ask 
to OpenCascade about a change in their licences .... but this is utopia.

[...]
> > Yes, but I can't guarantee I can spend much time on opencascade. I'm
> > interested in free tools for 3D CAD, and as a first step I would like
> > to be able to display a 3D models from IGES files. Apparently FreeCAD
> > ( http://juergen-riegel.net/FreeCAD/Docu/index.php?title=Main_Page )
> > can do this, but it needs Opencascade to compile.
>

FreeCad seems a great soft. I have tested the deb package (with opencascade 
inside. It would be nice to have a deb package ... at least in contrib.

Leo

Message #37 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: Teemu Ikonen <tpikonen@gmail.com>, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: opencascade packages

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:45:10 -0400

On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 15:09 +0200, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:
> A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> > On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 21:25 +0200, Teemu Ikonen wrote:
> > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> 
> wrote:
> > > >  I haven't had much time for this recently, but my todo list consists
> > > > of:
> > > >
> > > >       * Switch to the tarball used by FreeBSD (and soon Gentoo) at:
> > > >        
> > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/thierry/ *
> > > > Conduct a thorough license/copyright "audit" of the tarball to make
> > > > sure we have everything documented in the copyright file. * Upload to
> > > > non-free, will probably take several iterations to get in.
> > > >       * Separate out the non-free bits.
> > > >       * Upload to main with non-free parts in separate package, again
> > > >         will probably take several iterations.
> > > >       * Use Jason Kraftcheck's scripts to separate it into a few
> > > >         packages, and re-upload.
> > >
> > > Sounds like a good plan in general, but will the FreeBDS tarball stay
> > > up to date with the upstream version? Well, maybe it's too early to
> > > worry about that.
> 
> I have followed this thread with a lot of interest. I don't think the 
> OpenCascade was free in the way to put it in debian, so to me it's a bit .... 
> I don't know in a polite words ...
> <unpolite>
> touch my b..
> </unpolite>
> 
> than you spend a lot of hours in package some huge soft to nonfree. Well, I 
> know, they have their rights. But this kind of half-license half-open 
> half-nonfree are more problematic (and close) than open (free) and feasible.

As I see it, the license itself is free (can you find any non-free
parts?).  But right now a small handful of non-free bits, such as
triangle, will prevent it from entering main.  It will take some time to
disentangle these bits, so why not first upload to non-free, then when
we have time to disentangle it, then put the free majority in main?

> Howeber, as all in this life has a lot of buts:
> - if we have opencascade, another great free soft that use OpenCascade could 
> be inside.
> - if we have opencascade, maybe they want to relax their license ....
> 
> I don't know... just my feelings in this. We can try to begin a campain to ask 
> to OpenCascade about a change in their licences .... but this is utopia.

Right, we can't count on a license change, though it doesn't hurt to
ask.  And having it in non-free can be good as well, as you mention.

> > > Yes, but I can't guarantee I can spend much time on opencascade. I'm
> > > interested in free tools for 3D CAD, and as a first step I would like
> > > to be able to display a 3D models from IGES files. Apparently FreeCAD
> > > ( http://juergen-riegel.net/FreeCAD/Docu/index.php?title=Main_Page )
> > > can do this, but it needs Opencascade to compile.
> 
> FreeCad seems a great soft. I have tested the deb package (with opencascade 
> inside. It would be nice to have a deb package ... at least in contrib.

The FreeCAD libraries can go into contrib, but the main GPL app cannot
-- unless Debian concludes that the OpenCASCADE license is
GPL-compatible!  At this point, I don't see why they wouldn't, but it's
hard to tell.

This is an issue for Salomé as well: it is LGPL, but it links with GPL
Qt, so it can't go into Debian unless the OCC license is GPL-compatible
and OCC will need to be in main.

-Adam
-- 
GPG fingerprint: D54D 1AEE B11C CE9B A02B  C5DD 526F 01E8 564E E4B6

Engineering consulting with open source tools
http://www.opennovation.com/

Message #42 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Leopold Palomo Avellaneda <leo@alaxarxa.net>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>, Teemu Ikonen <tpikonen@gmail.com>, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: opencascade packages

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:43:15 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 15:09 +0200, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:
> > A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> > > On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 21:25 +0200, Teemu Ikonen wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Adam C Powell IV
> > > > <hazelsct@debian.org>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > >  I haven't had much time for this recently, but my todo list
> > > > > consists of:
> > > > >
> > > > >       * Switch to the tarball used by FreeBSD (and soon Gentoo) at:
> > > > >
> > > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/thierry/ *
> > > > > Conduct a thorough license/copyright "audit" of the tarball to make
> > > > > sure we have everything documented in the copyright file. * Upload
> > > > > to non-free, will probably take several iterations to get in. *
> > > > > Separate out the non-free bits.
> > > > >       * Upload to main with non-free parts in separate package,
> > > > > again will probably take several iterations.
> > > > >       * Use Jason Kraftcheck's scripts to separate it into a few
> > > > >         packages, and re-upload.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like a good plan in general, but will the FreeBDS tarball stay
> > > > up to date with the upstream version? Well, maybe it's too early to
> > > > worry about that.
> >
> > I have followed this thread with a lot of interest. I don't think the
> > OpenCascade was free in the way to put it in debian, so to me it's a bit
> > .... I don't know in a polite words ...
> > <unpolite>
> > touch my b..
> > </unpolite>
> >
> > than you spend a lot of hours in package some huge soft to nonfree. Well,
> > I know, they have their rights. But this kind of half-license half-open
> > half-nonfree are more problematic (and close) than open (free) and
> > feasible.
>
> As I see it, the license itself is free (can you find any non-free
> parts?). 

yes, it's non free at least in 2006 when I asked it to debian-legal and I 
interchanged some private mails with Aurelien Jarno.

> But right now a small handful of non-free bits, such as 
> triangle, will prevent it from entering main.  

tetgen?

> It will take some time to 
> disentangle these bits, so why not first upload to non-free, then when
> we have time to disentangle it, then put the free majority in main?

of course. But I don't think that it could be in main.

> > Howeber, as all in this life has a lot of buts:
> > - if we have opencascade, another great free soft that use OpenCascade
> > could be inside.
> > - if we have opencascade, maybe they want to relax their license ....
> >
> > I don't know... just my feelings in this. We can try to begin a campain
> > to ask to OpenCascade about a change in their licences .... but this is
> > utopia.
>
> Right, we can't count on a license change, though it doesn't hurt to
> ask.  And having it in non-free can be good as well, as you mention.

I asked in 2006 and I could ask again.

> > > > Yes, but I can't guarantee I can spend much time on opencascade. I'm
> > > > interested in free tools for 3D CAD, and as a first step I would like
> > > > to be able to display a 3D models from IGES files. Apparently FreeCAD
> > > > ( http://juergen-riegel.net/FreeCAD/Docu/index.php?title=Main_Page )
> > > > can do this, but it needs Opencascade to compile.
> >
> > FreeCad seems a great soft. I have tested the deb package (with
> > opencascade inside. It would be nice to have a deb package ... at least
> > in contrib.
>
> The FreeCAD libraries can go into contrib, but the main GPL app cannot
> -- unless Debian concludes that the OpenCASCADE license is
> GPL-compatible!  At this point, I don't see why they wouldn't, but it's
> hard to tell.

? 
it's gpl .... is public the discussion? It's just curiosity.

>
> This is an issue for Salomé as well: it is LGPL, but it links with GPL
> Qt, so it can't go into Debian unless the OCC license is GPL-compatible
> and OCC will need to be in main.

It's a mistake a soft that links against GPL library is GPL. It couldn't be 
LGPL.

Regards,

Leo




-- 
--
Linux User 152692
PGP: 0xF944807E
Catalonia

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #47 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: Teemu Ikonen <tpikonen@gmail.com>, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: opencascade packages

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:32:02 -0400

On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 19:43 +0200, Leopold Palomo Avellaneda wrote:
> A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> > On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 15:09 +0200, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:
> > > A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> > > > On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 21:25 +0200, Teemu Ikonen wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Adam C Powell IV
> > > > > <hazelsct@debian.org>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >  I haven't had much time for this recently, but my todo list
> > > > > > consists of:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >       * Switch to the tarball used by FreeBSD (and soon Gentoo) at:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/thierry/ *
> > > > > > Conduct a thorough license/copyright "audit" of the tarball to make
> > > > > > sure we have everything documented in the copyright file. * Upload
> > > > > > to non-free, will probably take several iterations to get in. *
> > > > > > Separate out the non-free bits.
> > > > > >       * Upload to main with non-free parts in separate package,
> > > > > > again will probably take several iterations.
> > > > > >       * Use Jason Kraftcheck's scripts to separate it into a few
> > > > > >         packages, and re-upload.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sounds like a good plan in general, but will the FreeBDS tarball stay
> > > > > up to date with the upstream version? Well, maybe it's too early to
> > > > > worry about that.
> > >
> > > I have followed this thread with a lot of interest. I don't think the
> > > OpenCascade was free in the way to put it in debian, so to me it's a bit
> > > .... I don't know in a polite words ...
> > > <unpolite>
> > > touch my b..
> > > </unpolite>
> > >
> > > than you spend a lot of hours in package some huge soft to nonfree. Well,
> > > I know, they have their rights. But this kind of half-license half-open
> > > half-nonfree are more problematic (and close) than open (free) and
> > > feasible.
> >
> > As I see it, the license itself is free (can you find any non-free
> > parts?). 
> 
> yes, it's non free at least in 2006 when I asked it to debian-legal and I 
> interchanged some private mails with Aurelien Jarno.

Really?  Can you point me to a URL?  I discussed it on debian-legal last
Fall (including Aurelien) and the conclusion was opposite: free license,
but upstream interprets it as non-free.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2007/12/msg00066.html

> > But right now a small handful of non-free bits, such as 
> > triangle, will prevent it from entering main.  
> 
> tetgen?

Like I said, a handful. :-)

> > It will take some time to 
> > disentangle these bits, so why not first upload to non-free, then when
> > we have time to disentangle it, then put the free majority in main?
> 
> of course. But I don't think that it could be in main.
> 
> > > Howeber, as all in this life has a lot of buts:
> > > - if we have opencascade, another great free soft that use OpenCascade
> > > could be inside.
> > > - if we have opencascade, maybe they want to relax their license ....
> > >
> > > I don't know... just my feelings in this. We can try to begin a campain
> > > to ask to OpenCascade about a change in their licences .... but this is
> > > utopia.
> >
> > Right, we can't count on a license change, though it doesn't hurt to
> > ask.  And having it in non-free can be good as well, as you mention.
> 
> I asked in 2006 and I could ask again.

Do you know people there?  If so, then please do ask!  And you could
point out that their interpretation clause saying that people must send
changes upstream would make it GPL-incompatible, let alone non-free.
And that this would make FreeCAD and Salomé illegal.

> > > > > Yes, but I can't guarantee I can spend much time on opencascade. I'm
> > > > > interested in free tools for 3D CAD, and as a first step I would like
> > > > > to be able to display a 3D models from IGES files. Apparently FreeCAD
> > > > > ( http://juergen-riegel.net/FreeCAD/Docu/index.php?title=Main_Page )
> > > > > can do this, but it needs Opencascade to compile.
> > >
> > > FreeCad seems a great soft. I have tested the deb package (with
> > > opencascade inside. It would be nice to have a deb package ... at least
> > > in contrib.
> >
> > The FreeCAD libraries can go into contrib, but the main GPL app cannot
> > -- unless Debian concludes that the OpenCASCADE license is
> > GPL-compatible!  At this point, I don't see why they wouldn't, but it's
> > hard to tell.
> 
> ? 
> it's gpl .... is public the discussion? It's just curiosity.

See above.

> > This is an issue for Salomé as well: it is LGPL, but it links with GPL
> > Qt, so it can't go into Debian unless the OCC license is GPL-compatible
> > and OCC will need to be in main.
> 
> It's a mistake a soft that links against GPL library is GPL. It couldn't be 
> LGPL.

Well, it can be LGPL as long as the GPL library is optional.  In the
case of Salomé, it has multiple components which interact using CORBA,
and it's possible that some might link with Qt and others with
proprietary code.

Unfortunately, there are binaries in Salomé which link with both Qt and
OCC (i.e. within a single component), so they must either assume that
OCC is GPL-compatible, or just ignore the licensing issues.

I discussed this a bit on the Salomé forum:
http://salome-platform.org/forum/?groupid=12&forumid=13&thread=1053
Nobody has directly addressed the issues I raised.

Thanks for the input,
-Adam
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Message #52 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Leopold Palomo Avellaneda <leo@alaxarxa.net>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>, Teemu Ikonen <tpikonen@gmail.com>, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: opencascade packages

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:47:03 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 19:43 +0200, Leopold Palomo Avellaneda wrote:
> > A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> > > On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 15:09 +0200, Leopold Palomo-Avellaneda wrote:
> > > > A Dilluns 21 Abril 2008, Adam C Powell IV va escriure:
> > > > > On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 21:25 +0200, Teemu Ikonen wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:23 PM, Adam C Powell IV
> > > As I see it, the license itself is free (can you find any non-free
> > > parts?).
[....]
> > yes, it's non free at least in 2006 when I asked it to debian-legal and I
> > interchanged some private mails with Aurelien Jarno.
>
> Really?  Can you point me to a URL?  

I did a mistake, I saw his message in the debian-legal and I asked him 
directly.

> I discussed it on debian-legal last 
> Fall (including Aurelien) and the conclusion was opposite: free license,
> but upstream interprets it as non-free.
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2007/12/msg00066.html

Yes, now I have read the thread and I begin to see the complexity. My attempts 
to contact with upstream where null. Only vague answers. In our private 
mails, Aurelien and I understand that it's not free software because 
the "preamble". Howeber, that part it's not the license, so? :-)
But this is too thin for my taste ... I don't to put debian in problems. To me 
the best solution is to have a clear answer from Upstream, but this is 
difficult.

> > > But right now a small handful of non-free bits, such as
> > > triangle, will prevent it from entering main.
> >
> > tetgen?
>
> Like I said, a handful. :-)

that's another soft interesting but no free software. 

[....]
> >
> > I asked in 2006 and I could ask again.
>
> Do you know people there?  If so, then please do ask!  And you could
> point out that their interpretation clause saying that people must send
> changes upstream would make it GPL-incompatible, let alone non-free.
> And that this would make FreeCAD and Salomé illegal.

Aurelien did it. I did it in the contact and I interchanged some "polite" 
mails with some people from there. But nothing clear.

[...]
> > > This is an issue for Salomé as well: it is LGPL, but it links with GPL
> > > Qt, so it can't go into Debian unless the OCC license is GPL-compatible
> > > and OCC will need to be in main.
> >
> > It's a mistake a soft that links against GPL library is GPL. It couldn't
> > be LGPL.
>
> Well, it can be LGPL as long as the GPL library is optional.  In the
> case of Salomé, it has multiple components which interact using CORBA,
> and it's possible that some might link with Qt and others with
> proprietary code.

Ok, but if you link with Qt of you are free soft or proprietary paying a 
licence to the Nokia people.

> Unfortunately, there are binaries in Salomé which link with both Qt and
> OCC (i.e. within a single component), so they must either assume that
> OCC is GPL-compatible, or just ignore the licensing issues.

Ignore the license issues. If really you have a component that link with OCC 
and QT and the license is not clear, really is a good reason to denounce 
them.

> I discussed this a bit on the Salomé forum:
> http://salome-platform.org/forum/?groupid=12&forumid=13&thread=1053
> Nobody has directly addressed the issues I raised.

Yes, it too complex and bizarre.

> Thanks for the input,

nops, thanks to you for the work done.

Leo


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Message #57 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: OpenCASCADE copyright/license audit

Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 12:27:08 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Greetings,

I've (finally) begun the arduous task of auditing the copyright(s)/
license(s) in OpenCASCADE.  Based on the number of files and
directories, this is bound to take a ton of time, so I'd appreciate some
help!  I've also solicited help on the OpenCASCADE forum, where I've
been discussing this with the Gentoo packagers.

I've put a brief start (6 of the 536 directories in ros/src) in:
http://www.opennovation.org/audits/opencascade-6.2.txt and will update
it as I and others work through this.  But before proceeding further, my
big question is: does this need any more information than it has?
Obviously the debian/copyright file will need the full text of all of
the licenses, but that's another matter.

Also, I built a new package based on the OpenBSD .tar.bz2 sources.  This
includes the audit file as debian/audit.txt and I'd like to make it the
basis of future packages.  One little hitch: as a Format 3.0 source
package, I don't think it can be uploaded before the lenny release
(because stable has to be able to unpack unstable sources).

Cheers,
-Adam
-- 
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Engineering consulting with open source tools
http://www.opennovation.com/

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Message #62 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Teemu Ikonen" <tpikonen@gmail.com>

To: "Adam C Powell IV" <hazelsct@debian.org>

Cc: debian-science@lists.debian.org, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: OpenCASCADE copyright/license audit

Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:35:38 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
> I've put a brief start (6 of the 536 directories in ros/src) in:
> http://www.opennovation.org/audits/opencascade-6.2.txt and will update
> it as I and others work through this.  But before proceeding further, my
> big question is: does this need any more information than it has?
> Obviously the debian/copyright file will need the full text of all of
> the licenses, but that's another matter.

May I suggest using the machine readable copyright format described at
http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat from the start? Since
the audit is going to be a huge task, it would be good to document it
in as formal way as possible. I made a partial conversion of the
current audit (files, copyright and license sections only) to this
format. You can find it attached to this mail.

> Also, I built a new package based on the OpenBSD .tar.bz2 sources.  This
> includes the audit file as debian/audit.txt and I'd like to make it the
> basis of future packages.  One little hitch: as a Format 3.0 source
> package, I don't think it can be uploaded before the lenny release
> (because stable has to be able to unpack unstable sources).

At least it works well here with the dpkg from lenny. Looking at the
size of the source package and the potential problems with missing
licenses etc. I don't think the upload to the archive will happen very
soon :)

Teemu

[audit.mr.txt (text/plain, attachment)]

Message #67 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: OpenCASCADE copyright/license audit

Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 09:33:57 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 15:35 +0200, Teemu Ikonen wrote:
> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
> > I've put a brief start (6 of the 536 directories in ros/src) in:
> > http://www.opennovation.org/audits/opencascade-6.2.txt and will update
> > it as I and others work through this.  But before proceeding further, my
> > big question is: does this need any more information than it has?
> > Obviously the debian/copyright file will need the full text of all of
> > the licenses, but that's another matter.
> 
> May I suggest using the machine readable copyright format described at
> http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat from the start? Since
> the audit is going to be a huge task, it would be good to document it
> in as formal way as possible. I made a partial conversion of the
> current audit (files, copyright and license sections only) to this
> format. You can find it attached to this mail.

Terrific, this is exactly why I sent this so early.  I think we can
probably simplify the file a bit by grouping a bunch of directories
together with similar copyrights and licenses.  Ah, "Match order" will
make this a lot easier, for the final copyright file.

Is there no way to distinguish other/free licenses from other/non-free?
I'll propose this...

I'll change the copyright file to this format for my next upload.

> > Also, I built a new package based on the OpenBSD .tar.bz2 sources.  This
> > includes the audit file as debian/audit.txt and I'd like to make it the
> > basis of future packages.  One little hitch: as a Format 3.0 source
> > package, I don't think it can be uploaded before the lenny release
> > (because stable has to be able to unpack unstable sources).
> 
> At least it works well here with the dpkg from lenny. Looking at the
> size of the source package and the potential problems with missing
> licenses etc. I don't think the upload to the archive will happen very
> soon :)

Indeed!  This .tar.bz2 is about half the size of my original .tar.gz,
and has about 20-30% fewer files, which is a good thing.  There are
separate FreeBSD tarballs for Java and other pieces of OCC, and gentoo
is using them for their packages too.

By the way, speaking of size, would anyone mind if I drop the static
libs from the -dev package?  They are enormous, they double the build
time and more than double the storage requirement, and I don't think
they are so important.

-Adam
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Engineering consulting with open source tools
http://www.opennovation.com/

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Message #72 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Sylvestre Ledru <sylvestre.ledru@inria.fr>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org, 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: OpenCASCADE copyright/license audit

Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 15:41:45 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello Adam,

Le vendredi 09 mai 2008 à 09:33 -0400, Adam C Powell IV a écrit :
> 
> 
> By the way, speaking of size, would anyone mind if I drop the static
> libs from the -dev package?  They are enormous, they double the build
> time and more than double the storage requirement, and I don't think
> they are so important.
I think you can drop them without a doubt...

Sylvestre

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #77 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Leopold Palomo Avellaneda <leo@alaxarxa.net>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: OpenCASCADE copyright/license audit

Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:37:53 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

A Divendres 09 Maig 2008, Sylvestre Ledru va escriure:
> Hello Adam,
>
> Le vendredi 09 mai 2008 à 09:33 -0400, Adam C Powell IV a écrit :
> > By the way, speaking of size, would anyone mind if I drop the static
> > libs from the -dev package?  They are enormous, they double the build
> > time and more than double the storage requirement, and I don't think
> > they are so important.
>
> I think you can drop them without a doubt...

I agree, but please put two lines in the README.Debian about it.

Regards,

Leo


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PGP: 0xF944807E
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Message #82 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Denis Barbier <barbier@linuxfr.org>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: OpenCASCADE copyright/license audit

Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 22:11:35 +0200

On Wed, 07 May 2008 12:27:08 -0400, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I've (finally) begun the arduous task of auditing the copyright(s)/
> license(s) in OpenCASCADE.  Based on the number of files and
> directories, this is bound to take a ton of time, so I'd appreciate some
> help!  I've also solicited help on the OpenCASCADE forum, where I've
> been discussing this with the Gentoo packagers.

Hi Adam,

I worked with Aurélien Jarno on an Opencascade Debian package a couple of years ago,
here is the debian/copyright file that I did write after a full license audit of
OpenCascade 6.1, I later checked files newly added to 6.2 and did not find any new
problem.  Hope this helps.

It was downloaded from
  http://files.opencascade.com/OCC_6.2_release/OpenCASCADE_Linux.tgz
installed with the provided installer and then repackaged.
* Following files have been removed for licensing reasons:
   samples/standard/java/java/HeavyToolTipManager.java
   ros/src/OpenGl/OpenGl_triangulate.h
   ros/inc/OpenGl_triangulate.h
   ros/src/Triangle/triangle.c
   ros/src/Triangle/triangle.h
   ros/inc/triangle.h
* 3rdparty/ directory has been dropped because it is useless in Debian.
* Following directories only contain Linux binary stuff and are dropped:
   ros/adm/Linux
   ros/Linux
   ros/lin
   samples/standard/java/adm/Linux
   samples/standard/java/Linux
   samples/standard/qt/Linux
   samples/tutorial/Linux
   tools/ocafbrowser/Linux
   uninstall
   wok/lib/lin

Note about copyright holders: Matra-Datavision bought CISIGRAPH on 1994, and
launched a spin-off named Open CASCADE S.A.S in 2000 to provide services
based on Open CASCADE Technology.

This package contains the following third-party programs:
  * GL2PS, an OpenGL to PostScript Printing Library
    Copyright (C) 1999-2004 Christophe Geuzaine <geuz@geuz.org>
    Released under the GNU Library General Public License, version 2 or later.
    On Debian systems, this license can be found at /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL

  * regex library
    Copyright (C) 1985 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    Released under the GNU Lesser General Public License, version 2.1 or later
    On Debian systems, this license can be found at /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL

  * GNU getopt
    Copyright (C) 1987, 88, 89, 90, 91, 1992 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    Released under the GNU Lesser General Public License, version 2.1 or later
    On Debian systems, this license can be found at /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL

  * a modified init.tcl script from tcl
    See tcl license below

  * Extended Tcl array procedures.
    Copyright 1992-1996 Karl Lehenbauer and Mark Diekhans.
       Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
       documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided
       that the above copyright notice appear in all copies.  Karl Lehenbauer and
       Mark Diekhans make no representations about the suitability of this
       software for any purpose.  It is provided "as is" without express or
       implied warranty.

All other material is licensed by Open CASCADE S.A.S under the license below:
[...full text of Open CASCADE Technology Public License skipped...]
[...full text of tcl license skipped...]

Denis

Message #87 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: OpenCASCADE copyright/license audit

Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 16:51:56 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 22:11 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
> On Wed, 07 May 2008 12:27:08 -0400, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > I've (finally) begun the arduous task of auditing the copyright(s)/
> > license(s) in OpenCASCADE.  Based on the number of files and
> > directories, this is bound to take a ton of time, so I'd appreciate some
> > help!  I've also solicited help on the OpenCASCADE forum, where I've
> > been discussing this with the Gentoo packagers.
> 
> Hi Adam,
> 
> I worked with Aurélien Jarno on an Opencascade Debian package a couple of years ago,
> here is the debian/copyright file that I did write after a full license audit of
> OpenCascade 6.1, I later checked files newly added to 6.2 and did not find any new
> problem.  Hope this helps.

Wow, thanks very much, this helps tremendously!  I will reformat this in
the proposed copyright format, and hope to have something uploadable (to
non-free) soon!

Given that this cuts an enormous amount of time off package development,
I will convert the .tar.bz2 file to .tar.gz for -8, in order to target
this to lenny.

-Adam
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Engineering consulting with open source tools
http://www.opennovation.com/

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Message #92 received at 464400@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org>

To: debian-science@lists.debian.org

Cc: 464400@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#464400: OpenCASCADE copyright/license audit

Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:57:51 -0400

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 16:51 -0400, Adam C Powell IV wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 22:11 +0200, Denis Barbier wrote:
> > On Wed, 07 May 2008 12:27:08 -0400, Adam C Powell IV <hazelsct@debian.org> wrote:
> > > Greetings,
> > > 
> > > I've (finally) begun the arduous task of auditing the copyright(s)/
> > > license(s) in OpenCASCADE.  Based on the number of files and
> > > directories, this is bound to take a ton of time, so I'd appreciate some
> > > help!  I've also solicited help on the OpenCASCADE forum, where I've
> > > been discussing this with the Gentoo packagers.
> > 
> > Hi Adam,
> > 
> > I worked with Aurélien Jarno on an Opencascade Debian package a couple of years ago,
> > here is the debian/copyright file that I did write after a full license audit of
> > OpenCascade 6.1, I later checked files newly added to 6.2 and did not find any new
> > problem.  Hope this helps.
> 
> Wow, thanks very much, this helps tremendously!  I will reformat this in
> the proposed copyright format, and hope to have something uploadable (to
> non-free) soon!
> 
> Given that this cuts an enormous amount of time off package development,
> I will convert the .tar.bz2 file to .tar.gz for -8, in order to target
> this to lenny.

I'm uploading 6.2-2 to http://lyre.mit.edu/~powell/opencascade/ .  I
consider this a "beta test" before uploading -3 to NEW, so please look
it over and try it out!  The copyright and README.Debian.html files
should be complete now.

My last to-do before -3 will be to add "-release" flags to LDFLAGS in
Makefile.?m to do library versioning, which will get rid of the biggest
remaining lintian warning. (After that, only missing man pages remain.)
I also want to split the package using Jason Kraftcheck's scripts, but
won't have time for a while; perhaps it'll get done by the time Debian
rejects this version. :-)

Big thanks to Denis Barbier for the old copyright file, and to him and
Aurélien Jarno for actually doing the audit!  We just may see
OpenCASCADE in lenny...

Cheers,
-Adam
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Message #99 received at 464400-close@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: hazelsct@debian.org (Adam C. Powell, IV)

To: 464400-close@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Bug#464400: fixed in opencascade 6.2-3

Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:59:34 +0000

Source: opencascade
Source-Version: 6.2-3

We believe that the bug you reported is fixed in the latest version of
opencascade, which is due to be installed in the Debian FTP archive:

libopencascade-dev_6.2-3_all.deb
  to pool/non-free/o/opencascade/libopencascade-dev_6.2-3_all.deb
libopencascade6.2_6.2-3_amd64.deb
  to pool/non-free/o/opencascade/libopencascade6.2_6.2-3_amd64.deb
opencascade-doc_6.2-3_all.deb
  to pool/non-free/o/opencascade/opencascade-doc_6.2-3_all.deb
opencascade-examples_6.2-3_all.deb
  to pool/non-free/o/opencascade/opencascade-examples_6.2-3_all.deb
opencascade-tools_6.2-3_amd64.deb
  to pool/non-free/o/opencascade/opencascade-tools_6.2-3_amd64.deb
opencascade_6.2-3.diff.gz
  to pool/non-free/o/opencascade/opencascade_6.2-3.diff.gz
opencascade_6.2-3.dsc
  to pool/non-free/o/opencascade/opencascade_6.2-3.dsc
opencascade_6.2.orig.tar.gz
  to pool/non-free/o/opencascade/opencascade_6.2.orig.tar.gz



A summary of the changes between this version and the previous one is
attached.

Thank you for reporting the bug, which will now be closed.  If you
have further comments please address them to 464400@bugs.debian.org,
and the maintainer will reopen the bug report if appropriate.

Debian distribution maintenance software
pp.
Adam C. Powell, IV <hazelsct@debian.org> (supplier of updated opencascade package)

(This message was generated automatically at their request; if you
believe that there is a problem with it please contact the archive
administrators by mailing ftpmaster@debian.org)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:38:09 -0400
Source: opencascade
Binary: libopencascade6.2 libopencascade-dev opencascade-tools opencascade-doc opencascade-examples
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 6.2-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Adam C. Powell, IV <hazelsct@debian.org>
Changed-By: Adam C. Powell, IV <hazelsct@debian.org>
Description: 
 libopencascade-dev - OpenCASCADE CAE platform library development files
 libopencascade6.2 - OpenCASCADE CAE platform shared library
 opencascade-doc - OpenCASCADE CAE platform library development files
 opencascade-examples - OpenCASCADE CAE platform library input examples
 opencascade-tools - OpenCASCADE CAE platform tools
Closes: 464400
Changes: 
 opencascade (6.2-3) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * First upload!  (Closes: #464400)
   * Added "-release 6.2" to LDADD for all libs making that the library version.
   * Dropped -0 from shared lib package, and version from -dev package.
   * Corrected a bunch of library dependencies.
Checksums-Sha1: 
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Checksums-Sha256: 
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