Debian Bug report logs - #368530
joe: Mail would be better word-wrapped at 70 columns.

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Package: joe; Maintainer for joe is Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>; Source for joe is src:joe.

Reported by: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl>

Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 20:48:07 UTC

Severity: wishlist

Found in version joe/3.3-5

Forwarded to https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2214210&group_id=23475&atid=378598

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>:
Bug#368530; Package joe. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Adam Borowski <kilobyte@mimuw.edu.pl>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@mimuw.edu.pl>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: joe: Mail would be better word-wrapped at 70 columns.
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 22:27:04 +0200
Package: joe
Version: 3.3-5
Severity: wishlist

Could you please set the default -rmargin for mail (*tmp/mutt-*) to 70
columns, as prescribed by the Netiquette?  With the current default of
77, lines quoted multiple times by users of lesser editors/mailers
without proper reformatting capabilities tend to wrap around nastily
pretty fast.

Regards,
1KB

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.16-1-686
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)

Versions of packages joe depends on:
ii  libc6                         2.3.6-9    GNU C Library: Shared libraries
ii  libncurses5                   5.5-2      Shared libraries for terminal hand

joe recommends no packages.

-- no debconf information



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>:
Bug#368530; Package joe. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Josip Rodin <joy@srce.hr>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 368530@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Josip Rodin <joy@srce.hr>
To: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@mimuw.edu.pl>, 368530@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#368530: joe: Mail would be better word-wrapped at 70 columns.
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 07:50:38 +0200
On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 10:27:04PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Package: joe
> Version: 3.3-5
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> Could you please set the default -rmargin for mail (*tmp/mutt-*) to 70
> columns, as prescribed by the Netiquette?  With the current default of
> 77, lines quoted multiple times by users of lesser editors/mailers
> without proper reformatting capabilities tend to wrap around nastily
> pretty fast.

That's a slippery slope. What about the threads where there are more than
five quotes (5 * "> " is 80-10 = 70 characters)?

Besides, the line wrapping settings (margins and wordwrap) don't affect text
that is already entered. Since you can't automagically reduce the line width
of the quoted mails, you could only reduce the width of your lines and make
your own ^KJ function more efficient, but you still have to do that each
time you get a new mail with "broken" quotes.

-- 
     2. That which causes joy or happiness.



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>:
Bug#368530; Package joe. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Adam Borowski <kilobyte@mimuw.edu.pl>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 368530@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@mimuw.edu.pl>
To: Josip Rodin <joy@srce.hr>
Cc: 368530@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#368530: joe: Mail would be better word-wrapped at 70 columns.
Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 15:46:59 +0200 (CEST)
On Tue, 23 May 2006, Josip Rodin wrote:
> On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 10:27:04PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
>> Could you please set the default -rmargin for mail (*tmp/mutt-*) to 70
>> columns, as prescribed by the Netiquette?  With the current default of
>> 77, lines quoted multiple times by users of lesser editors/mailers
>> without proper reformatting capabilities tend to wrap around nastily
>> pretty fast.
>
> That's a slippery slope. What about the threads where there are more than
> five quotes (5 * "> " is 80-10 = 70 characters)?

70 columns is just the most often mentioned number.  RFC1855 mentions it 
in a different context while not giving an exact number for mail, but most 
Usenet and e-mail FAQs say that directly.  (It's the most often used 
value, but not the only one -- a glance at Google shows a case of "72" and 
one of "65-70", for example).
I too would say that 70 columns is a bit on the paranoid side as in 
well-behaved communities like Debian lists people know to delete 
irrelevant parts and thus it's unlikely to have 5 lines of quotations; 
though, in general, it doesn't sound like a totally unreasonable value.

Certainly, it's better than 77 (current jstar's default) which breaks 
during the _2nd_ quoting.  77 is good for non-mail text and thus it 
probably should be left as the global default, but, as the config file 
allows specifying different values for different file types, there is no 
reason not to adjust it.

> Besides, the line wrapping settings (margins and wordwrap) don't affect text
> that is already entered. Since you can't automagically reduce the line width
> of the quoted mails, you could only reduce the width of your lines and make
> your own ^KJ function more efficient, but you still have to do that each
> time you get a new mail with "broken" quotes.

I can't?  Well, it works just fine in all mailers I use: mutt+jstar, 
Thunderbird, pine.  For example:

> > Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod
> > tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam,
> > quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo
> > consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse
> > cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat
> > non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est 
> > laborum.

^B in jstar / ^K^J in joe =>

> > Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do
> > eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut
> > enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris
> > nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in
> > reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat
> > nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident,
> > sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Everything seems to work perfectly for quite a number of different quoting 
styles.

-- 
/-----------------------\ Shh, be vewy, vewy quiet,
| kilobyte@mimuw.edu.pl | I'm hunting wuntime ewwows!
\-----------------------/
Segmentation fault (core dumped)



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>:
Bug#368530; Package joe. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Josip Rodin <joy@srce.hr>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Josip Rodin <joy-packages@debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 368530@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Josip Rodin <joy@srce.hr>
To: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@mimuw.edu.pl>
Cc: 368530@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#368530: joe: Mail would be better word-wrapped at 70 columns.
Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 16:22:29 +0200
On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 03:46:59PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> >Besides, the line wrapping settings (margins and wordwrap) don't affect
> >text that is already entered. Since you can't automagically reduce the
> >line width of the quoted mails, you could only reduce the width of your
> >lines and make your own ^KJ function more efficient, but you still have
> >to do that each time you get a new mail with "broken" quotes.
> 
> I can't?  Well, it works just fine in all mailers I use: mutt+jstar, 
> Thunderbird, pine.  For example:
> 
> >> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod
> >> tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim 
> >veniam,
> >> quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo
> >> consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse
> >> cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat
> >> non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est 
> >> laborum.
> 
> ^B in jstar / ^K^J in joe =>
> 
> >> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do
> >> eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut
> >> enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris
> >> nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in
> >> reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat
> >> nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident,
> >> sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
> 
> Everything seems to work perfectly for quite a number of different quoting 
> styles.

Please re-read what I wrote. Yes, ^KJ works, but it doesn't happen all by
itself, you still have to go to the paragraph with the cursor, and execute
the command. Reducing the line width won't help with that.

-- 
     2. That which causes joy or happiness.



Changed Bug submitter from Adam Borowski <kilobyte@mimuw.edu.pl> to Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl>. Request was from Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Noted your statement that Bug has been forwarded to https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2214210&group_id=23475&atid=378598. Request was from Jari Aalto <jari.aalto@cante.net> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sat, 01 Nov 2008 16:21:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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