Debian Bug report logs - #341839
md5sum output format violates tech-ctte decision

Package: tech-ctte; Maintainer for tech-ctte is Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>;

Reported by: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>

Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 15:03:01 UTC

Owned by: iwj@debian.org

Severity: important

Done: Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org>:
Bug#341839; Package coreutils. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: md5sum output format violates tech-ctte decision
Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 15:37:08 +0100
Package: coreutils
Version: 5.2.1-2.1
Severity: important

The tech-ctte had ruled some time ago that md5sum from stdin should not
output a "-" [0].  It seems to be back to the old format:

$ md5sum </dev/null | cat -vet
d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e  -$

[0]  http://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2004/06/msg00032.html

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
Kernel: Linux 2.6.12-1-k7
Locale: LANG=de_DE@euro, LC_CTYPE=de_DE@euro (charmap=ISO-8859-15)

Versions of packages coreutils depends on:
ii  libacl1                       2.2.32-1   Access control list shared library
ii  libc6                         2.3.5-8    GNU C Library: Shared libraries an

coreutils recommends no packages.

-- no debconf information



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org:
Bug#341839; Package coreutils. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 341839@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org>
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>, 341839@bugs.debian.org, debian-ctte@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#341839: md5sum output format violates tech-ctte decision
Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:22:26 -0500
On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 03:37:08PM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
>The tech-ctte had ruled some time ago that md5sum from stdin should not
>output a "-" [0].  It seems to be back to the old format:
>
>$ md5sum </dev/null | cat -vet
>d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e  -$

It's that way in sarge also. I'm frankly going to ignore this unless the
tech ctte revisits it. AFAICT this was dealt with in the tech ctte because
it was a pet peeve of ian jackson. I find it vaguely disturbing that
there was an entire thread about changing the behavior of a program in
coreutils that *was never mentioned to the coreutils maintainer*. Since
nobody told me about this discussion, I'll assume I was meant to ignore
it. FWIW, both md5sums in sarge shipped with the "forbidden" behavior
and I see no compelling reason whatsoever to deviate from either our own
current output or every other distribution's (which is based on
coreutils' upstream behavior).

Mike Stone



Bug reassigned from package `coreutils' to `tech-ctte'. Request was from Peter Eisentraut <petere@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Owner recorded as iwj@debian.org. Request was from Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org:
Bug#341839; Package tech-ctte. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>, 341839@bugs.debian.org:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #19 received at 341839@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>
To: debian-ctte@lists.debian.org
Cc: 341839@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 00:45:16 -0400
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
I hereby call for an immediate TC vote on the question of what md5sum's
output format should be, requested by bug #341839.  

As Anthony noted in his early March summary of open issues, the current 
md5sum behavior matches the formats used by upstream, and by related tools 
such as sha1sum, sha256sum, and sha512sum.  He suggested that we should 
rescind the previous TC decision in favor of existing practice, which means 
ranking choice 2 on this ballot first.

Since this vote may overrule a developer, 6.1.3 of our Constitution requires
a 3:1 majority of the TC for choice 1.  However, a simple majority will 
suffice for choice 2 to defeat further discussion.

  In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1. Place a 2 in
  the brackets next to your next choice.  Continue until you reach your last
  choice.  Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger than 3.  You may
  skip numbers.  You may rank options equally (as long as all choices X you
  make fall in the range 1 <= X <= 3).

  To vote "no, no matter what" rank "Further discussion" as more
  desirable than the unacceptable choices, or You may rank the "Further
  discussion" choice, and leave choices you consider unacceptable
  blank. Unranked choices are considered equally the least desired
  choices, and ranked below all ranked choices. (Note: if the Further
  Discussion choice is unranked, then it is equal to all other unranked
  choices, if any.)

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[   ] Choice 1: the output of md5sum should be changed as per bug #341839
[   ] Choice 2: the output of md5sum should not change despite bug #341839
[   ] Choice 3: Further discussion
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Bdale
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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org:
Bug#341839; Package tech-ctte. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Ian Jackson <ian@davenant.greenend.org.uk>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #24 received at 341839@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Jackson <ian@davenant.greenend.org.uk>
To: 341839@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:36:44 +0100
Bdale Garbee writes ("Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format"):
> As Anthony noted in his early March summary of open issues, the current 
> md5sum behavior matches the formats used by upstream, and by related tools 
> such as sha1sum, sha256sum, and sha512sum.  He suggested that we should 
> rescind the previous TC decision in favor of existing practice, which means 
> ranking choice 2 on this ballot first.

Obviously my view is that sha*sum should have the behaviour specified
in the previous resolution.

> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> [ 1 ] Choice 1: the output of md5sum should be changed as per bug #341839
> [ 3 ] Choice 2: the output of md5sum should not change despite bug #341839
> [ 2 ] Choice 3: Further discussion
> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Ian.



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org:
Bug#341839; Package tech-ctte. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Anthony Towns <aj@azure.humbug.org.au>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #29 received at 341839@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Anthony Towns <aj@azure.humbug.org.au>
To: debian-ctte@lists.debian.org, 341839@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:06:24 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 12:45:16AM -0400, Bdale Garbee wrote:
> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> [ 3 ] Choice 1: the output of md5sum should be changed as per bug #341839
> [ 1 ] Choice 2: the output of md5sum should not change despite bug #341839
> [ 2 ] Choice 3: Further discussion
> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This horse has bolted already.

]   * Don't worry if md5sum from stdin adds a "  -" after the md5sum. Should
]     make debootstrap more usable on non-Debian Linuxes.
] -- Anthony Towns <aj@azure.humbug.org.au>  Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:38:35 +1000

Cheers,
aj

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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org:
Bug#341839; Package tech-ctte. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Ian Jackson <ian@davenant.greenend.org.uk>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #34 received at 341839@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ian Jackson <ian@davenant.greenend.org.uk>
To: debian-ctte@lists.debian.org, 341839@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:32:49 +0100
Anthony Towns writes ("Re: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format"):
> This horse has bolted already.
> 
> ]   * Don't worry if md5sum from stdin adds a "  -" after the md5sum. Should
> ]     make debootstrap more usable on non-Debian Linuxes.
> ] -- Anthony Towns <aj@azure.humbug.org.au>  Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:38:35 +1000

debootstrap is far from the only script that needs to deal with the
output from md5sum.

Ian.



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org:
Bug#341839; Package tech-ctte. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #39 received at 341839@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>
To: 341839@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:56:03 +0100
bdale@gag.com (Bdale Garbee) writes:

> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> [ 3 ] Choice 1: the output of md5sum should be changed as per bug #341839
> [ 1 ] Choice 2: the output of md5sum should not change despite bug #341839
> [ 2 ] Choice 3: Further discussion
> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I don't have a strong personal opinion on this question.  Given that, I 
choose to let the package maintainer's decision stand.

Bdale



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org:
Bug#341839; Package tech-ctte. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #44 received at 341839@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org>
To: Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>, 341839@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:04:28 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Thu, Jun 14, 2007 at 12:45:16AM -0400, Bdale Garbee wrote:
> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> [ 2 ] Choice 1: the output of md5sum should be changed as per bug #341839
> [ 1 ] Choice 2: the output of md5sum should not change despite bug #341839
> [ 3 ] Choice 3: Further discussion
> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

We have a de facto standard behavior today that is shared among coreutils
upstream, coreutils in Debian, and other analogous tools such as sha1sum,
sha256sum, and sha512sum.  While the TC has the authority to change the
behavior of these tools within Debian, we do not have the authority to get
them changed upstream, and the coreutils maintainer does not agree that this
is a correct technical solution; so at best, overriding the maintainer in
this case would result in inconsistent behavior between Debian and upstream.

The benefits of this change are not so great that divergence from upstream
is warranted.

However, I don't believe any further discussion is likely to be of benefit
either, so I have ranked further discussion last.

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
vorlon@debian.org                                   http://www.debian.org/
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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org:
Bug#341839; Package tech-ctte. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Technical Committee <debian-ctte@lists.debian.org>, iwj@debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #49 received at 341839@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org>
To: debian-ctte@lists.debian.org
Cc: 341839@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:15:59 -0500
Hi,

        I think that maintaining compatibility counts for more than not
 doing so.

- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[ 2 ] Choice 1: the output of md5sum should be changed as per bug #341839
[ 1 ] Choice 2: the output of md5sum should not change despite bug #341839
[ 3 ] Choice 3: Further discussion
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

        Since I am at Debconf, I do not have read access to my keys;
 I'll sign this mail in a week or so if doing so is critical.

        manoj
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C



Reply sent to Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #54 received at 341839-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>
To: 341839-done@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#341839: Call for vote: coreutils: md5sum output format
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 03:14:57 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
As Andi correctly indicated, the vote on this issue is now complete, and the
committee believes the output of md5sum should not change despite bug
#341839.

Bdale
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:28:26 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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