Debian Bug report logs - #341228
mazeofgalious: patent infringement

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Daniel Baumann <daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net>

To: submit@bugs.debian.org

Cc: joerg@debian.org

Subject: maze-of-galious: Patent infrigement

Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:15:58 +0100

Package: maze-of-galious
Severity: serious

This package is not redistributable due to patented game design in Japan
(and maybe others) and should remove from Debian. Please read the
comments at the ITP[0] of mog from several other Debian members for more
information.

Regards,
Daniel

[0] bugs.debian.org/301527

-- 
Address:        Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist
Email:          daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net
Internet:       http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/

Message #16 received at 341228@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Josh Triplett <josh@freedesktop.org>

To: 341228@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Direct copyright and trademark infringement

Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:12:19 -0800

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Ignoring the possible issue of "making a similar game" being somehow an
infringement independent of actual copying of game data, the far more
blatant and relevant issue is that the game data still directly uses
material copyrighted and trademarked by Konami.  The maintainer
mentioned in the changelog that they "Removed non-free original
graphics", which is true: they removed the graphics set "alternate"
which was simply the original graphics with various improvements,
leaving the "naramura" graphics set which appears to be *mostly* an
original creation.  However, this graphics set still includes several
chunks of non-original or trademarked data, including:

* The title screen in "start.pcx" which includes the trademark "Konami"
and a derived game logo.  Compare the layout and font of the words; they
look like a near-exact match, with just a color change and an increased
size.  Creating an original logo design, and avoiding the trademarked
company name would solve this issue.  For reference, BTW, a quick search
on the USPTO website indicates that there are no trademarks on the game
name itself, only on "Konami"; on the other hand, choosing an original
game name would avoid some extra trouble, and make it easier to claim
the logo image is original.

* The Konami logo in konami.pcx; trademarked and copyrighted by Konami.
 This should be removed entirely, as should any and all references to
the word "konami" in the entire work.

* It is possible, given these issues, that some of the other graphics
were not drawn from scratch, and may be modified versions of the
original graphics.  Most look original to me, but to be certain, it
would be a good idea to contact the original author of the graphics set.
 Any non-original graphics need to be replaced by original graphics.

- Josh Triplett

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Message #21 received at 341228@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Gürkan Sengün <gurkan@linuks.mine.nu>

To: 341228@bugs.debian.org, daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net, josh@freedesktop.org

Cc: joerg@debian.org

Subject: Re: mazeofgalious: patent infringement

Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:14:35 +0100

> This package is not redistributable due to patented game design in Japan
> (and maybe others) and should remove from Debian. Please read the
> comments at the ITP[0] of mog from several other Debian members for more
> information.

I have read them and I still disagree to you. Youo claim it is patented,
however a search of my side on the following places didn't yield any results:

- http://www.patents.ibm.com/
- http://www.uspto.gov
- http://www.european-patent-office.org
- http://www.jpo.go.jp/

Please tell me which patents these are.

> * The title screen in "start.pcx" which includes the trademark "Konami"
> and a derived game logo.  Compare the layout and font of the words; they
> look like a near-exact match, with just a color change and an increased
> size.  Creating an original logo design, and avoiding the trademarked
> company name would solve this issue.  For reference, BTW, a quick search
> on the USPTO website indicates that there are no trademarks on the game
> name itself, only on "Konami"; on the other hand, choosing an original
> game name would avoid some extra trouble, and make it easier to claim
> the logo image is original.

No more words of Konami can be found in the package in sid. Should
there be any problems with the name of the game, I can change it, any
suggestions? Pac Man and Bomber Man clones are called what they are too,
not different names.

> * The Konami logo in konami.pcx; trademarked and copyrighted by Konami.
> This should be removed entirely, as should any and all references to
> the word "konami" in the entire work.

This was also fixed with: http://bugs.debian.org/341501

> * It is possible, given these issues, that some of the other graphics
> were not drawn from scratch, and may be modified versions of the
> original graphics.  Most look original to me, but to be certain, it
> would be a good idea to contact the original author of the graphics set.
> Any non-original graphics need to be replaced by original graphics.

I can not really check that, however I have forwarded your concerns to
upstream but haven't gotten a reply yet. Feel free to send me a more
detailed report on which graphics exactly and I can try to work out to
replace them.

Cheers,
Gürkan

Message #30 received at 341228@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Daniel Baumann <daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net>

To: 341228@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Severity rising

Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:05:11 +0100

Guerkan Senguen wrote:
> I have read them and I still disagree to you.

Here is a short explaination, why I raised the severity again:

* A patent applies even if you don't know of it. This means, one have to
_first_ check all the patents, and _then_ upload/distribute a program.
Otherwise, one can be sued (in some countries and some circumstances).

* Your report did list some trademark-related things you fixed. This is
fine and I appreciate your work, but not the intention of this bug.
Together with your very short answer (read the follow-up down here), I
have the impression you didn't do a complete patent research.

> Youo claim it is
> patented, however a search of my side on the following places didn't
> yield any results:

For example, in the USA, ther are at least over 200 patents issued to
Konami, you may used the wrong search mask.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=0&p=1&f=S&l=50&Query=konami&d=PG01

> - http://www.patents.ibm.com/

legally irrelevant.

> - http://www.uspto.gov

needs to be checked, see above.

> - http://www.european-patent-office.org

legally irrelevant, as we don't have legally enforcable
'software/software-design/business-methods'-patents.

> - http://www.jpo.go.jp/

needs to be checked too.

-- 
Address:        Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist
Email:          daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net
Internet:       http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/

Message #35 received at 341228@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org>

To: daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net, 341228@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#341228: Severity rising

Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:08:20 -0800

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On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 10:05:11PM +0100, Daniel Baumann wrote:
> Guerkan Senguen wrote:
> > I have read them and I still disagree to you.

> Here is a short explaination, why I raised the severity again:

> * A patent applies even if you don't know of it. This means, one have to
> _first_ check all the patents, and _then_ upload/distribute a program.
> Otherwise, one can be sued (in some countries and some circumstances).

"First check all the patents" is a ridiculous assertion.  Debian's de facto
policy has been to ignore patents that are not being enforced in the field,
or which we have a reasonable belief are invalid and would be overturned in
court.

It has also been claimed publically by various parties that looking at
patents exposes people to greater liability than not looking at them.

If there are images that have been copied from some other game into this
package, that is a *copyright* issue, not a patent one.  This is what I've
seen asserted in this bug report and in the wnpp discussion under the guise
of "patent"; if that's still what you're referring to, then yes, those are
issues that need to be resolved.  But unless you can point to a particular
patent which is being enforced that is infringed by mazeofgalious, patents
are a non-issue here.

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
vorlon@debian.org                                   http://www.debian.org/

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Message #40 received at 341228@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Daniel Baumann <daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net>

To: Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org>

Cc: 341228@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: Bug#341228: Severity rising

Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 09:05:29 +0100

Steve Langasek wrote:
> "First check all the patents" is a ridiculous assertion.  Debian's de facto
> policy has been to ignore patents that are not being enforced in the field,
> or which we have a reasonable belief are invalid and would be overturned in
> court.

I'm talking specifically to *this* package. Konami has patented the
various game plays and game designs per se, additionally Konami is
actively enforcing their patents. Please read #301527.

As we talked a few days ago about the issue, Guerkan said to me that he
didn't found *any* patent claims by Konami in US at all, which is not
true. Therefore I had the impression he didn't check or queried wrong
the database.

> If there are images that have been copied from some other game into this
> package, that is a *copyright* issue, not a patent one.

As I said multiple times, this bug is *only* about patents, *not* about
copyright and/or trademarks, although people were still talking about
that within the bug.

However, Guerkan and I are looking through the patent claims. You may
give us some days and we will clear the situation, thank you.

-- 
Address:        Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist
Email:          daniel.baumann@panthera-systems.net
Internet:       http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/

Message #51 received at 341228-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Daniel Baumann <daniel.baumann@progress-technologies.net>

To: 341228-done@bugs.debian.org

Subject: Re: maeofgalious: patent infringement

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 17:42:04 +0200

i don't care anymore, closing.

-- 
Address:        Daniel Baumann, Donnerbuehlweg 3, CH-3012 Bern
Email:          daniel.baumann@progress-technologies.net
Internet:       http://people.progress-technologies.net/~daniel.baumann/

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