Debian Bug report logs - #253085
Please i18n/l10n docbook2man-spec.pl

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Package: docbook-utils; Maintainer for docbook-utils is Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>; Source for docbook-utils is src:docbook-utils.

Reported by: debian@helgefjell.de

Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 08:03:04 UTC

Severity: wishlist

Tags: l10n, moreinfo, patch

Found in version 0.6.9-12

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#253085; Package docbook-utils. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>
To: submit@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Please i18n/l10n docbook2man-spec.pl
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:56:44 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Package: docbook-utils
Version: 0.6.9-12
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch l10n

//Version: 0.5.1-6
//Package: docbook2man

//I wrote this with docbook2man still installed. I just looked at the
//latest version of docbook-utils, and saw that this issue is not
//addressed. I can update at home in the next days if you think this is
//sensible, though the issue at hand should not be touched by this
//package shift.

Hello,
as you know more and more parts in Debian are l10n and i18n'ed. I am
part of the german translation team and 
Currently I translate some man pages written in SGML, which are
converted to nroff using docbook2man-spec.pl. A good part of SGML is
that repetitve/generic parts are autogenerated. 

However, this generic parts have to be available in the language the
document is written in. Once this is done, it also eases the burden on
translators who do not have to care about those repetitive tasks
either. 

Attached you find a very primitive solution, implemented for german.
Before starting to code, I think it is sensible to determine how this
should be done properly:

1. Best solution of course, would be to parse an attribute, i.e., in
   <!DOCTYPE RefEntry PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook V4.1//EN">
                                                         ~~~~
   and then the parser would choose the required strings and
   conventions. This, of course, would require proper support in the
   DTDs. Since Debian is a member in OASIS, such developments could be
   a medium to long-term solution. 

2. The second best solution would be to enable the transforming script
   to receive additional options, in this case a language settings.
   The script would then choose the conventions/strings required for
   this language or english if the language is (still) unknown.
   Considering the parser at hand, this would require
   po-debconf-support for the strings involved. Also it requires some
   way to set the proper date-format within the man page.

3. The easiest to implement solution are seperate scripts for each
   language, with the strings replaced appropriately, and the date
   format (if necessary) adopted appropriately. This is the approach
   taken in the attached patch. I also only translated the strings
   written into the man page, assuming that at least initially only
   translators would use the tool, hence they would understand the
   error/status messages. Of course, in the long run ALL strings
   should be translated. I can of course, hand in the general strings
   in german as well. I marked the strings and other localizable parts
   (e.g. quoting signs) with # L10N

   Instead of giving it a different name, subdirectories could be used
   as well.

Before you implement a final solution, you should probably discuss the
issue on FIXME@list.debian.org. I sent there a question a while ago
(c.f. FIXME), but I guess if you ask for concret input on possible
zenarios, you will get valuable input. Especially, how to properly
encode the locale. This, eventually, will include the character set as
well. 

To get translations started quickly, a possible solution would be to
implement 3. first, issuing warnings (and maybe using compatibility
links) when 2./1. are available.

Ceavat: I "only" translate to german, and I only "use" SGML, so there
might be hidden problems with non-western languages (e.g., chinese) I
am not aware of or technical SGML-constraints I am not aware of
either.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (990, 'testing')
Architecture: alpha
Kernel: Linux 2.4.21-pre1
Locale: LANG=de_DE@euro, LC_CTYPE=de_DE@euro

Versions of packages docbook2man depends on:
ii  perl [perl5]                  5.8.3-3    Larry Wall's Practical Extraction 
ii  sgmlspl                       1.03ii-30  SGMLS-based example Perl script fo

-- no debconf information
-- 
Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys.               Helge.Kreutzmann@itp.uni-hannover.de
  gpg signed mail preferred    gpg-key: finger kreutzm@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de
    64bit GNU powered                  http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm
       Help keep free software "libre": http://www.freepatents.org/
[docbook2man-de-spec.pl (application/x-perl, attachment)]
[Message part 3 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#253085; Package docbook-utils. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 253085@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>
To: 253085@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Localized of docbook2man-spec.pl version now shipping
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:09:42 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hello,
the latest version of aboot now uses a localized version of
docbook2man-spec.pl to generate the german man pages. I would of
course prefer to colaborate with your package also for the german
version. Any thoughts from you on the localization process?

Greetings

           Helge
-- 
Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys.               Helge.Kreutzmann@itp.uni-hannover.de
  gpg signed mail preferred    gpg-key: finger kreutzm@zibal.itp.uni-hannover.de
    64bit GNU powered                  http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm
       Help keep free software "libre": http://www.freepatents.org/
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#253085; Package docbook-utils. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 253085@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>
To: 253085@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Contact upstream directly
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:45:17 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hello,
I have not yet received a response from you regarding this i18n issue.
Since Debian participates in OASIS and i18n is a strong point in
Debian, I assumed that it would be best to report it here. Before
continuing development on it for, e.g., aboot, I really like to
coordinate with people more experienced with SGML and i18n. Should I
report this to upstream directly?

Greetings

            Helge
-- 
Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys.           Helge.Kreutzmann@itp.uni-hannover.de
                       gpg signed mail preferred 
    64bit GNU powered                  http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm
       Help keep free software "libre": http://www.freepatents.org/
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#253085; Package docbook-utils. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 253085@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>
To: steve@ggi-project.org
Cc: 253085@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Localization/I18n of docbook2man-spec.pl
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 13:49:41 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hello Steve,
in the man page for docbook2man-spec.pl, you write:
Support  other  (human)  languages.   But  what  to do with non-ASCII
         charsets?  SGMLSpm doesn't report them and roff does not  grok  them.
         [Comment:  text  after enclosed lists (and SS blocks) will break doc-
         book2man] If we do this, more people can use DocBook.

I needed docbook2man for german, so I hacked in german support. Of course,
german contains only a few non-ASCII characters, but as far as I tested, it 
works. Can you have a look at my solution found at

bugs.debian.org/253085

and tell me your thoughts? The Debian maintainers have not yet responded
on my ideas, therefor I write this to you directly. Maybe you've
started some work in this in the meantime as well, so we can merge
those?

Thanks for writing docbook2man-spec.pl, it is really a good tool.

Greetings

           Helge
-- 
Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys.           Helge.Kreutzmann@itp.uni-hannover.de
                       gpg signed mail preferred 
    64bit GNU powered                  http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm
          Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#253085; Package docbook-utils. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 253085@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de>
To: Eric Bischoff <eric@caldera.de>
Cc: 253085@bugs.debian.org
Subject: docbook2man-spec.pl
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 14:02:58 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hello Eric,
I have an improvement for the docbook2man-spec.pl script. I tried to
mail it to Steve Cheng but the email-address is no longer valid. Can
you please forward this message (follows) to him or the person
responsible for docbook2man-spec.pl now?

Thanks

          Helge


Hello Steve,
in the man page for docbook2man-spec.pl, you write:
Support  other  (human)  languages.   But  what  to do with non-ASCII
         charsets?  SGMLSpm doesn't report them and roff does not  grok  them.
         [Comment:  text  after enclosed lists (and SS blocks) will break doc-
         book2man] If we do this, more people can use DocBook.

I needed docbook2man for german, so I hacked in german support. Of course,
german contains only a few non-ASCII characters, but as far as I tested, it 
works. Can you have a look at my solution found at

bugs.debian.org/253085

and tell me your thoughts? The Debian maintainers have not yet responded
on my ideas, therefor I write this to you directly. Maybe you've
started some work in this in the meantime as well, so we can merge
those?

Thanks for writing docbook2man-spec.pl, it is really a good tool.

Greetings

           Helge
-- 
Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys.           Helge.Kreutzmann@itp.uni-hannover.de
                       gpg signed mail preferred 
    64bit GNU powered                  http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm
          Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/
-- 
Dr. Helge Kreutzmann, Dipl.-Phys.           Helge.Kreutzmann@itp.uni-hannover.de
                       gpg signed mail preferred 
    64bit GNU powered                  http://www.itp.uni-hannover.de/~kreutzm
          Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Changed Bug submitter from Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de> to debian@helgefjell.de. Request was from Helge Kreutzmann <debian@helgefjell.de> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#253085; Package docbook-utils. (Wed, 09 May 2012 17:09:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Mathieu Malaterre <malat@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Wed, 09 May 2012 17:09:06 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #32 received at 253085@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mathieu Malaterre <malat@debian.org>
To: 253085@bugs.debian.org
Cc: 253085-submitter@bugs.debian.org, Control bugs server <control@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: docbook2man-spec.pl
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 19:08:00 +0200
tag 253085 moreinfo
thanks

Any update on this patch ?

Thanks




Added tag(s) moreinfo. Request was from Mathieu Malaterre <malat@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Wed, 09 May 2012 17:09:11 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message sent on to debian@helgefjell.de:
Bug#253085. (Wed, 09 May 2012 17:09:16 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>:
Bug#253085; Package docbook-utils. (Thu, 10 May 2012 18:18:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Helge Kreutzmann <debian@helgefjell.de>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian XML/SGML Group <debian-xml-sgml-pkgs@lists.alioth.debian.org>. (Thu, 10 May 2012 18:18:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #42 received at 253085@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Helge Kreutzmann <debian@helgefjell.de>
To: Mathieu Malaterre <malat@debian.org>, 253085-quiet@bugs.debian.org
Cc: 253085@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#253085: docbook2man-spec.pl
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 20:15:54 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hallo Mathieu,
On Wed, May 09, 2012 at 07:08:00PM +0200, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> tag 253085 moreinfo

Which information do you need?

> Any update on this patch ?

You are the first person to respond to this bug report. Feel free to
ask me whatever you need, maybe you or someone else then can proceed
towwards a solution. Maybe.

Greetings

              Helge
-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information stored :
Bug#253085; Package docbook-utils. (Thu, 10 May 2012 18:18:23 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Helge Kreutzmann <debian@helgefjell.de>:
Extra info received and filed, but not forwarded. (Thu, 10 May 2012 18:18:24 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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