Debian Bug report logs - #251825
full cd isses: missing netcfg, missing kernel for modern macs

Package: debian-cd; Maintainer for debian-cd is Debian CD Group <debian-cd@lists.debian.org>; Source for debian-cd is src:debian-cd.

Reported by: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>

Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 08:03:02 UTC

Severity: normal

Done: Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
To: bugs@debian.org, gnu@new.toad.com
Cc: jensen@debian.org, luther@debian.org
Subject: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:45:04 -0700
Package: debian-installer
Version: sarge 20040523 CD

I booted the install CD in expert mode, and was able to progress
through the installation until picking a kernel.  I picked the
kernel-image-2.6.6-powerpc (I also tried 2.4.25-powerpc-small-pmac and
got the same result).  It failed to install, producing these error
messages:

  You are attempting to install an initrd kernel image (version 2.6.6-powerpc)
  This will not work unless you have configured your boot loader to use
  initrd. (An initrd image is a kernel image that expects to use an INITial
  Ram Disk to mount a minimal root file system into RAM and use that for
  booting).

  I repeat, You need to configure your boot loader -- please read your
  bootloader documentation for details on how to add initrd images.

  If you have already done so, and you wish to get rid of this message,
  please put
    `do_initrd = Yes'
  in /etc/kernel-img.conf. Note that this is optional, but if you do not,
  you'll continue to see this message whenever you install a kernel
  image using initrd.
  Do you want to stop now? [Y/n]OK, Aborting
  dpkg: error processing /derom/pool/main/k/kernel-patch-powerpc-2.6.6/kernel-image/2.6.6-powerpc_2.6.6-2_powerpc.deb (--unpack):
   subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1

I don't know whether the yaboot configuration stuff (which comes later
in debian-installer) know how to handle an initrd 2.6 (or 2.4) kernel.
There was no documentation in the manuals about whether or when it is
appropriate to use 2.6 kernels in debian-installer...

...and no documentation anywhere visible, about which of the dozen+
kernels is even for which hardware!

(I tried rebooting and reinstalling and editing that file, as it
suggested, but before the kernel install, the file doesn't exist; and
the failure happens very soon after you pick the kernel to install.)

	John

PS:  I had tried to do this install in non-expert mode, but you can see
the results of that in bug#248067.  It picked the 2.4.25-powerpc-smp-prep
kernel (I don't know if that works on a PowerBook G4 -- it says it's for a
PrEP computer, which I've never heard of).  But then it didn't install
anyway, with a "(=D) is not a directory" error message.



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>, 251825@bugs.debian.org
Cc: bugs@debian.org, gnu@new.toad.com, jensen@debian.org, luther@debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#251825: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 13:31:42 +0100
On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 12:45:04AM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> Package: debian-installer
> Version: sarge 20040523 CD

This is rather old. A lot of packages have been moved into testing since
then.

> I booted the install CD in expert mode, and was able to progress
> through the installation until picking a kernel.  I picked the
> kernel-image-2.6.6-powerpc (I also tried 2.4.25-powerpc-small-pmac and
> got the same result).  It failed to install, producing these error
> messages:
> 
>   You are attempting to install an initrd kernel image (version 2.6.6-powerpc)
>   This will not work unless you have configured your boot loader to use
>   initrd. (An initrd image is a kernel image that expects to use an INITial
>   Ram Disk to mount a minimal root file system into RAM and use that for
>   booting).

This indicates an old version of rootskel. Please try a current image.

> I don't know whether the yaboot configuration stuff (which comes later
> in debian-installer) know how to handle an initrd 2.6 (or 2.4) kernel.

It does.

> There was no documentation in the manuals about whether or when it is
> appropriate to use 2.6 kernels in debian-installer...

The documentation needs a *big* round of updates, I'm afraid.

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 251825@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
To: 251825@bugs.debian.org, gnu@toad.com
Subject: Re: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:10:16 -0700
[Resending to bugs to correct typo in address.]

To: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>
cc: 251825@debian.org, gnu@toad.com, jensen@debian.org, luther@debian.org
In-Reply-To: Message from Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr> 
   of "Mon, 31 May 2004 11:53:35 +0200." <20040531095335.GA5316@pegasos> 
References: <200405310745.i4V7j48U015832@new.toad.com>  <20040531095335.GA5316@pegasos> 
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 03:53:33 -0700
From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>

> > I booted the install CD in expert mode, and was able to progress
> > through the installation until picking a kernel.  I picked the
> > kernel-image-2.6.6-powerpc (I also tried 2.4.25-powerpc-small-pmac and
> > got the same result).  It failed to install, producing these error
> 
> Well, the correct 2.4 kernel for your hardware would be
> 2.4.25-powerpc-pmac. I assume that you have a new world pmac (that is,
> more recent than the blue&white G3), altough you don4t give any info
> about this.

The latest PowerPC Sarge CD doesn't include a 2.4.25-powerpc-pmac kernel
image.  (I've heard that a few weeks ago it was in exile on CD #9.)
The closest this CD came was powerpc-small-pmac.

I'm installing on a brand new PowerBook G4 12".  It's not the faster
one that Apple just shipped; it's the one we got slightly cheaper
right after they announced new ones :-).

Is there a web page somewhere (or perhaps even something in the
installation manual!) that says which kernels go with which pieces
of PowerPC hardware?

> > ...and no documentation anywhere visible, about which of the dozen+
> > kernels is even for which hardware!
> 
> It should be automatically selected, don't know what happened. Did you
> start in expert mode or something ?

Yes.  When I start in non-expert mode, it won't let me bring up a
network connection (even if I have the ethernet plugged in).  In an
earlier attempt at installing, I was able to install the right kernel
by getting it over the net.

And when I start in non-expert mode, on this hardware the automatic
picker picks kernel-image-2.4.25-powerpc-smp-prep.  Even if this was
the right kernel (I doubt it is, it's a uniprocessor), that kernel
install script dies with "Internal Error: (=D) is not a directory!",
as reported tonight in bug#248067.

Somehow, the Sarge CD starts up with the right kernel (or with a
kernel that works for everybody).  If only the installer could just
copy that damn CD kernel onto the hard drive, we'd be done.  The user
is going to throw that one away and install a BenH kernel if he's been
googling even a little bit, so all he needs is ANY bootable kernel.
Besides, I hear that there are even more interesting problems awaiting me
once my machine is able to boot -- like, no X11 support and such.

Thank you for your help.

	John Gilmore



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 251825@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
To: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
Cc: 251825@bugs.debian.org, gnu@toad.com, jensen@debian.org, luther@debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#251825: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:58:53 -0700
Thank you for the help.

> > Package: debian-installer
> > Version: sarge 20040523 CD
> 
> This is rather old. A lot of packages have been moved into testing since
> then.

Wait -- a one-week-old CD is rather old?  It is the absolute very
latest one available if you follow the recommended path from
www.debian.org to get a CD for the "testing" release.

Try it.  From Debian home page, click "Getting Debian / CD ISO
images".  From there, pick "Assemble images using jigdo".  From there,
pick "Official Images" or scroll down; then pick "Official jigdo files
for the 'testing' distribution on CD".  This led me to:

  http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/cdimage-testing/cd/jigdo-area/

which has a powerpc subdirectory, which was last updated 24-May-2004 and
contains sarge-powerpc-1.jigdo, which is how I built my CD.

(I will note that just a week ago this "official" URL didn't work, and
 you had to go to the "unofficial" jigdo area on gluck!  But this has
 been recently fixed.)

> This indicates an old version of rootskel. Please try a current image.

This *is* a current image.  Where would you find a "more current"
image of the testing release?  If there's a better place, don't tell
me -- tell the www.debian.org pages, because a lot of people must be
getting sent to the wrong place.

Thank you.

	John




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #30 received at 251825@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
To: 251825@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Sven Luther: Re: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 13:00:47 -0700
[Due to a typo in the cc list on my older mail, this reply from Sven
 didn't make it into the bugs database.  Forwarding.  --John]

Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:50:05 +0200
To: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
Cc: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>, 251825@debian.org, jensen@debian.org,
   luther@debian.org
Subject: Re: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Message-ID: <20040531125003.GA12224@pegasos>
References: <200405310745.i4V7j48U015832@new.toad.com> <20040531095335.GA5316@pegasos> <200405311053.i4VArX8U002284@new.toad.com>
In-Reply-To: <200405311053.i4VArX8U002284@new.toad.com>
From: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>

On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 03:53:33AM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> > > I booted the install CD in expert mode, and was able to progress
> > > through the installation until picking a kernel.  I picked the
> > > kernel-image-2.6.6-powerpc (I also tried 2.4.25-powerpc-small-pmac and
> > > got the same result).  It failed to install, producing these error
> > 
> > Well, the correct 2.4 kernel for your hardware would be
> > 2.4.25-powerpc-pmac. I assume that you have a new world pmac (that is,
> > more recent than the blue&white G3), altough you don4t give any info
> > about this.
> 
> The latest PowerPC Sarge CD doesn't include a 2.4.25-powerpc-pmac kernel
> image.  (I've heard that a few weeks ago it was in exile on CD #9.)
> The closest this CD came was powerpc-small-pmac.

Well, then you either need to get it from the net, or you need CD #9.
the powerpc-small kernel is mostly only used for creating old world
miboot debian-installer floppies, and there is no reason it should be on
CD #1. That said, there has been no official sarge floppies for beta4,
which is a real shame. I would be interested myself with a powerpc DVD
set for it, but i hear that testing is currently too broken to create
such CD/DVD sets.

Now, go to the debian-installer site, download the beta4 powerpc
netinst, and do the install from there, it should contain everything you
would need.

> I'm installing on a brand new PowerBook G4 12".  It's not the faster
> one that Apple just shipped; it's the one we got slightly cheaper
> right after they announced new ones :-).

A, the nvidia one.

> Is there a web page somewhere (or perhaps even something in the
> installation manual!) that says which kernels go with which pieces
> of PowerPC hardware?

Nope, but debian-installer should know about it. Get yourself the beta4
netinst iso, and you should be able to do a full base install from it,
and also to configure the network and pull the rest of the stuff from
there.

> > > ...and no documentation anywhere visible, about which of the dozen+
> > > kernels is even for which hardware!
> > 
> > It should be automatically selected, don't know what happened. Did you
> > start in expert mode or something ?
> 
> Yes.  When I start in non-expert mode, it won't let me bring up a
> network connection (even if I have the ethernet plugged in).  In an

This is a more worthy bug report. Did you already fill that bug report.
Notice that on my ibook G3 800, which i should get again tomorrow, i had
no such problems.

> earlier attempt at installing, I was able to install the right kernel
> by getting it over the net.
> 
> And when I start in non-expert mode, on this hardware the automatic
> picker picks kernel-image-2.4.25-powerpc-smp-prep.  Even if this was
> the right kernel (I doubt it is, it's a uniprocessor), that kernel
> install script dies with "Internal Error: (=D) is not a directory!",
> as reported tonight in bug#248067.

Bah. probably a base-installer bug then, i don't know what happens, my
ibook having been dead for over a month, i haven't done pmac installs
since then. But then again, please use the beta4, it should be working
better, i think.

> Somehow, the Sarge CD starts up with the right kernel (or with a

Where did you get that sarge CD from ?

> kernel that works for everybody).  If only the installer could just
> copy that damn CD kernel onto the hard drive, we'd be done.  The user
> is going to throw that one away and install a BenH kernel if he's been

And that would be stupid, since this kernel _IS_ a benh kernel, but then
the user will probably be reading a whole lot of outdated HOWTOs.

> googling even a little bit, so all he needs is ANY bootable kernel.
> Besides, I hear that there are even more interesting problems awaiting me
> once my machine is able to boot -- like, no X11 support and such.

Well, again, please use current information. 4.3.0 should have no
problem on your hardware, but then everyone buying nvidia graphics
deserves what he gets, and i have not followed on that all that much, so
i may be wrong.

> Thank you for your help.

No problem,

Friendly,

Sven Luther



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #35 received at 251825@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
To: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>, gnu@toad.com
Cc: 251825@bugs.debian.org, jensen@debian.org, debian-cd@mail.debian.org
Subject: Re: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 13:38:23 -0700
> > The latest PowerPC Sarge CD doesn't include a 2.4.25-powerpc-pmac kernel
> > image.  (I've heard that a few weeks ago it was in exile on CD #9.)
> > The closest this CD came was powerpc-small-pmac.
> 
> Well, then you either need to get it from the net, or you need CD #9.
> the powerpc-small kernel is mostly only used for creating old world
> miboot debian-installer floppies, and there is no reason it should be on
> CD #1.

I'm hereby trying to cc the debian-cd team with this information...

(May 23 2004's Jigdo CD #1 of Sarge for PowerPC boots fine on modern
Macintoshes, but it isn't able to install a kernel that will make the
hard drive boot up, because the required powerpc-pmac kernel image is
not on CD #1.  There seem to be tons of kernels on CD #1 -- for
machines that nobody makes any more :-)

> That said, there has been no official sarge floppies for beta4,
> which is a real shame.

Doesn't matter for modern Macs, since they don't have floppy drives anyway.

> I would be interested myself with a powerpc DVD
> set for it, but i hear that testing is currently too broken to create
> such CD/DVD sets.

I can't test that for you; don't have a DVD-burner.

> Now, go to the debian-installer site, download the beta4 powerpc
> netinst, and do the install from there, it should contain everything you
> would need.

Aha.  I'll try it!

Two documentation notes: "The debian-installer site" is a loose term;
Google found it, but navigation from www.debian.org did not.  I looked
under "Debian Packages" and searched for anything that contained
"debian-installer" or "installer".  Never did find it, just a bunch of
libraries and things.  If there really is a package called
"debian-installer", perhaps someone should tell the Packages page at
www.debian.org about it.

Second: the "beta4 powerpc netinst" is not any of the images that is
visible on the debian-installer site -- at least the one Google found,
which was

  http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

From some poking around on other pages, it appears that by "netinst"
you mean what the web page calls "110 MB CD image, with Debian base".
If so, maybe the web page should be changed to include the word
netinst on that line, e.g. "110 MB 'netinst' CD image, with Debian
base".  (Indeed, the URL of the powerpc link on that line does include
the string "netinst", but my first guess would have been the "netboot
and other boot images" line since at least it says "net" right there
in the heading.

Also, that image is not 110MB any more -- it's up to 161MB.  And,
curiously, it's from a month ago - April 30.  Why would the "official
sarge Jigdo" release be a month behind the "cdimage-testing/sarge_d-i"
release?  And why would a month-old net install CD work better than
the latest full CD from only a week ago?

> > Yes.  When I start in non-expert mode, it won't let me bring up a
> > network connection (even if I have the ethernet plugged in).  In an
> 
> This is a more worthy bug report. Did you already fill that bug report.

I filed it in THIS bug report, but I didn't file a separate bug report
saying that the official jigdo install CD wasn't configuring my
network interface.  So far when I file simple bug reports like that,
(like bug@251827), some harried developer just closes them out
inappropriately, without even bothering to verify them.

> > Somehow, the Sarge CD starts up with the right kernel ...
> 
> Where did you get that sarge CD from ?

From www.debian.org, I clicked "Getting Debian / CD ISO images".  From
there I clicked "Assemble images using jigdo" (the alternative of
downloading full ISOs is disrecommended due to limited server
capacity).  From there I got the "Official jigdo files for the
'testing' distribution on CD (all architectures, regenerated weekly)".
From that I got the sarge-powerpc-1.jigdo, timestamped 24-May-2004.
The release self-describes as 20040523.  I assembled the .iso with
jigdo from that, and burned it myself.

*** I'm beginning to think that the root of my problems is that the d-i
team is building their own CD's, and never noticing the official CDs
that the debian-cd team is building.  So the "official" CDs don't ever
get tested by the d-i team.  Perhaps?  ***

> Well, again, please use current information. 4.3.0 should have no
> problem on your hardware, but then everyone buying nvidia graphics
> deserves what he gets, 

If only I knew what "current information" meant.  There isn't even
a Sarge installation manual reachable from the Debian home page (yep,
I did report that bug separately -- bug#251813).

I think the speed of light, even through optical fibers, prevents me
from actually observing current information, even if www.debian.org
would point me to it :-).

I'll report back after trying the d-i netinst CD.

	John



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #40 received at 251825@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>
To: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
Cc: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>, 251825@bugs.debian.org, jensen@debian.org, debian-cd@mail.debian.org
Subject: Re: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:48:25 +0200
On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 01:38:23PM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> > > The latest PowerPC Sarge CD doesn't include a 2.4.25-powerpc-pmac kernel
> > > image.  (I've heard that a few weeks ago it was in exile on CD #9.)
> > > The closest this CD came was powerpc-small-pmac.
> > 
> > Well, then you either need to get it from the net, or you need CD #9.
> > the powerpc-small kernel is mostly only used for creating old world
> > miboot debian-installer floppies, and there is no reason it should be on
> > CD #1.
> 
> I'm hereby trying to cc the debian-cd team with this information...
> 
> (May 23 2004's Jigdo CD #1 of Sarge for PowerPC boots fine on modern
> Macintoshes, but it isn't able to install a kernel that will make the
> hard drive boot up, because the required powerpc-pmac kernel image is
> not on CD #1.  There seem to be tons of kernels on CD #1 -- for
> machines that nobody makes any more :-)

Well, this is being worked on with the 2.6 kernels.

> > That said, there has been no official sarge floppies for beta4,
> > which is a real shame.
> 
> Doesn't matter for modern Macs, since they don't have floppy drives anyway.

Err, i wanted to say CD set, naturally.

> > I would be interested myself with a powerpc DVD
> > set for it, but i hear that testing is currently too broken to create
> > such CD/DVD sets.
> 
> I can't test that for you; don't have a DVD-burner.

Yeah, still a two (or three with sources) CD set should be a great
distribution media.

> > Now, go to the debian-installer site, download the beta4 powerpc
> > netinst, and do the install from there, it should contain everything you
> > would need.
> 
> Aha.  I'll try it!
> 
> Two documentation notes: "The debian-installer site" is a loose term;

Err, i should have given you the full url, i think. But you did find it,
so ...

> Google found it, but navigation from www.debian.org did not.  I looked
> under "Debian Packages" and searched for anything that contained
> "debian-installer" or "installer".  Never did find it, just a bunch of
> libraries and things.  If there really is a package called
> "debian-installer", perhaps someone should tell the Packages page at
> www.debian.org about it.

Yep, altough i think it is linked from the devel corner.

> Second: the "beta4 powerpc netinst" is not any of the images that is
> visible on the debian-installer site -- at least the one Google found,
> which was
> 
>   http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
> 
> >From some poking around on other pages, it appears that by "netinst"
> you mean what the web page calls "110 MB CD image, with Debian base".
> If so, maybe the web page should be changed to include the word
> netinst on that line, e.g. "110 MB 'netinst' CD image, with Debian
> base".  (Indeed, the URL of the powerpc link on that line does include
> the string "netinst", but my first guess would have been the "netboot
> and other boot images" line since at least it says "net" right there
> in the heading.

Well, i should have used the full official name, and not the internal
codename, but then mine was not some kind of official documentation
effort.

> Also, that image is not 110MB any more -- it's up to 161MB.  And,

It is 110Mo on x86, but powerpc, like all risc, binaries are bigger, and
there are lot of kernels on it, so ...

> curiously, it's from a month ago - April 30.  Why would the "official

Which is the official date of the beta4 release.

> sarge Jigdo" release be a month behind the "cdimage-testing/sarge_d-i"
> release?  And why would a month-old net install CD work better than
> the latest full CD from only a week ago?

Because it has been tested, and that it includes everything needed to
bring up a base system. The problem is that there is no one full CD, but
that it is only part of a 7 (or 9 apparently) CD set.

> > > Yes.  When I start in non-expert mode, it won't let me bring up a
> > > network connection (even if I have the ethernet plugged in).  In an
> > 
> > This is a more worthy bug report. Did you already fill that bug report.
> 
> I filed it in THIS bug report, but I didn't file a separate bug report
> saying that the official jigdo install CD wasn't configuring my
> network interface.  So far when I file simple bug reports like that,
> (like bug@251827), some harried developer just closes them out
> inappropriately, without even bothering to verify them.

Well, a bug report is better when it has a title with the problem in it,
and debian-installer bug reports are better handled thansome other
packages.

> > > Somehow, the Sarge CD starts up with the right kernel ...
> > 
> > Where did you get that sarge CD from ?
> 
> >From www.debian.org, I clicked "Getting Debian / CD ISO images".  From
> there I clicked "Assemble images using jigdo" (the alternative of
> downloading full ISOs is disrecommended due to limited server
> capacity).  From there I got the "Official jigdo files for the
> 'testing' distribution on CD (all architectures, regenerated weekly)".
> >From that I got the sarge-powerpc-1.jigdo, timestamped 24-May-2004.
> The release self-describes as 20040523.  I assembled the .iso with
> jigdo from that, and burned it myself.
> 
> *** I'm beginning to think that the root of my problems is that the d-i
> team is building their own CD's, and never noticing the official CDs
> that the debian-cd team is building.  So the "official" CDs don't ever
> get tested by the d-i team.  Perhaps?  ***

The problem is a bit more complicated. There are CDs built out of sarge
and Cds built out of sid. and there is the daily built d-i and the one
uploaded to sarge, and ...

Actually, the best way to install is to use the beta4 CDs, and then use
whatever .deb source you like for the post reboot install.

> > Well, again, please use current information. 4.3.0 should have no
> > problem on your hardware, but then everyone buying nvidia graphics
> > deserves what he gets, 
> 
> If only I knew what "current information" meant.  There isn't even
> a Sarge installation manual reachable from the Debian home page (yep,
> I did report that bug separately -- bug#251813).
>
> I think the speed of light, even through optical fibers, prevents me
> from actually observing current information, even if www.debian.org
> would point me to it :-).

Well, xfree86 4.3.0 is included in sarge, and the release notes thereof can be
found at : 

  http://www.xfree86.org/4.3.0/Status23.html#23

Mmm, seems like your nvidia chip is not included there, not sure though.
You can see if you have more luck with Michel Daenzer's dri-trunk
packages (hint: google search here) or maybe a newer nv driver has been
included in the sarge X packages. Not sure though.

Notice that the "current information" bit was a pike against the
tendency of powerpc users to write random HOWTO's and then not to notice
when things change and the things worked aropund in those howtos are
fixed. I am not sure if those HOWTO's don't cause more harm than help in
the long run.

Friendly,

Sven Luther
> 
> I'll report back after trying the d-i netinst CD.
> 
> 	John



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #45 received at 251825@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
Cc: 251825@bugs.debian.org, jensen@debian.org, luther@debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#251825: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:10:50 +0100
On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 12:58:53PM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> Thank you for the help.
> > This is rather old. A lot of packages have been moved into testing since
> > then.
> 
> Wait -- a one-week-old CD is rather old?  It is the absolute very
> latest one available if you follow the recommended path from
> www.debian.org to get a CD for the "testing" release.

We're currently recommending that people test businesscard/netinst
images rather than the full CD images. Links to the daily builds are
available from http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer.

The full images are indeed only generated weekly, since at the moment it
takes a lot of resources to generate them (although this is being worked
on).

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #50 received at 251825@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
To: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>
Cc: 251825@bugs.debian.org, jensen@debian.org, debian-cd@mail.debian.org
Subject: Re: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:59:50 -0700
> > *** I'm beginning to think that the root of my problems is that the d-i
> > team is building their own CD's, and never noticing the official CDs
> > that the debian-cd team is building.  So the "official" CDs don't ever
> > get tested by the d-i team.  Perhaps?  ***
> 
> The problem is a bit more complicated. There are CDs built out of sarge
> and Cds built out of sid. and there is the daily built d-i and the one
> uploaded to sarge, and ...
> 
> Actually, the best way to install is to use the beta4 CDs, and then use
> whatever .deb source you like for the post reboot install.

Thanks!  It worked.

I just did a successful install using the "110MB" beta4 d-i netinst CD.
It did a quick install of the base packages, installed a good kernel,
and rebooted without trouble.  Then came an hour of downloading, and
even more time of alternating between answering silly questions and
waiting for silly questions to suddenly pop up.  The X server isn't
working yet, but that isn't your problem.

So I guess there are two issues I'd still like to resolve with the d-i
and debian-cd teams:

  *  The version of d-i that's on the debian-cd Sarge CD #1 doesn't
     let you configure a network interface, or pick any network sources
     of .debs, unless you run it in expert mode.  This makes problems
     like "no working kernel on the boot CD" fatal, because it won't use
     the net as a backup source of .debs.

  *  There seems to be no way to successfully install Sarge on a modern
     Mac using the debian-cd CD's.  CD #1 doesn't include a working
     kernel, and debian-installer never provides an option to change
     CD's to let me insert a different CD that contains a working
     kernel.

Since presumably the average user is going to install using the global
debian-cd images, rather than by picking up a beta CD from the d-i
project, these things should probably get fixed in the global images.

	John

PS: Jens Schmalzing <j.s@lmu.de> proposed that I just ignore Sarge.
What's the point of having a testing distribution if nobody tests it
and reports the bugs in it?  Also, I thought 'testing' was going to be
more stable than the 'unstable' distribution.  If there really is no
actual point to Sarge, then rather than misleading newcomers to Debian
with three distributions, the whole Debian project should just offer
two: working but ancient (which in my case doesn't even support my
hardware), and bleeding-edge.



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#251825; Package debian-installer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Install System Team <debian-boot@lists.debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #55 received at 251825@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>
To: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
Cc: Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr>, 251825@bugs.debian.org, jensen@debian.org, debian-cd@mail.debian.org
Subject: Re: Installing sarge PPC kernel with d-i fails with initrd warning
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 07:31:12 +0200
On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 06:59:50PM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> > > *** I'm beginning to think that the root of my problems is that the d-i
> > > team is building their own CD's, and never noticing the official CDs
> > > that the debian-cd team is building.  So the "official" CDs don't ever
> > > get tested by the d-i team.  Perhaps?  ***
> > 
> > The problem is a bit more complicated. There are CDs built out of sarge
> > and Cds built out of sid. and there is the daily built d-i and the one
> > uploaded to sarge, and ...
> > 
> > Actually, the best way to install is to use the beta4 CDs, and then use
> > whatever .deb source you like for the post reboot install.
> 
> Thanks!  It worked.
> 
> I just did a successful install using the "110MB" beta4 d-i netinst CD.
> It did a quick install of the base packages, installed a good kernel,
> and rebooted without trouble.  Then came an hour of downloading, and
> even more time of alternating between answering silly questions and
> waiting for silly questions to suddenly pop up.  The X server isn't
> working yet, but that isn't your problem.

Notice that you could have used your CD set for the rest of the install,
or even just the first CD you have already burned, so you will get
packages from there, and the rest from the net.

> So I guess there are two issues I'd still like to resolve with the d-i
> and debian-cd teams:
> 
>   *  The version of d-i that's on the debian-cd Sarge CD #1 doesn't
>      let you configure a network interface, or pick any network sources
>      of .debs, unless you run it in expert mode.  This makes problems
>      like "no working kernel on the boot CD" fatal, because it won't use
>      the net as a backup source of .debs.
> 
>   *  There seems to be no way to successfully install Sarge on a modern
>      Mac using the debian-cd CD's.  CD #1 doesn't include a working
>      kernel, and debian-installer never provides an option to change
>      CD's to let me insert a different CD that contains a working
>      kernel.
> 
> Since presumably the average user is going to install using the global
> debian-cd images, rather than by picking up a beta CD from the d-i
> project, these things should probably get fixed in the global images.

Yep, but this is probably going to happen once the debian-installer is
released in a few days/weeks.

> PS: Jens Schmalzing <j.s@lmu.de> proposed that I just ignore Sarge.
> What's the point of having a testing distribution if nobody tests it
> and reports the bugs in it?  Also, I thought 'testing' was going to be
> more stable than the 'unstable' distribution.  If there really is no

This has proven to be wrong, often unstable is more stable on x86 at
least. On powerpc testing has the benefit of not suffering version skew
when a new package has a binary: all and a binary: any package, which
has not yet been recompiled on powerpc.

> actual point to Sarge, then rather than misleading newcomers to Debian
> with three distributions, the whole Debian project should just offer
> two: working but ancient (which in my case doesn't even support my
> hardware), and bleeding-edge.

Well, testing has proved to be more of a release management tool than a
real distribution, so it is still usefull.

Friendly,

Sven Luther



Bug reassigned from package `debian-installer' to `debian-cd'. Request was from Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Changed Bug title. Request was from Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Reply sent to Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #64 received at 251825-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
To: 218032-done@bugs.debian.org, 239078-done@bugs.debian.org, 239290-done@bugs.debian.org, 246948-done@bugs.debian.org, 248055-done@bugs.debian.org, 251825-done@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Closing old bugs
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 13:35:11 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
 #218032 - Descarga CD's con jigdo
 #239078 - install: Beta3, BIOS does not boot CD
 #239290 - Can not boot the CD at all
 #246948 - No error if CD is ejected while integrity is being tested
 #248055 - missing appropriate powerpc kernel on sarge CD
 #251825 - full cd isses: missing netcfg, missing kernel for modern macs
 
d-i and debian CDs have seen lots of development (including a stable
release and several etch betas) since the last traffic on these bugs,
so I'm closing these - the reported problems should all be fixed by
now. If you're still experiencing problems, please re-open or open a
new bug against newer versions.

Thanks,
-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
Who needs computer imagery when you've got Brian Blessed?
[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:59:09 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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