Debian Bug report logs - #186778
ExtUtils::Embed problem when libperl-dev not installed

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Package: perl; Maintainer for perl is Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>; Source for perl is src:perl.

Reported by: Stephen Waters <swaters@luy.info>

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:03:01 UTC

Severity: minor

Found in versions 5.8.0-17, perl/5.10.0-8

Done: Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Brendan O'Dea <bod@debian.org>, perl@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#186778; Package perl-modules. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Stephen Waters <swaters@luy.info>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Brendan O'Dea <bod@debian.org>, perl@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stephen Waters <swaters@luy.info>
To: submit@bugs.debian.org
Subject: ExtUtils::Embed problem when libperl-dev not installed
Date: 29 Mar 2003 14:51:57 -0600
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Package: perl-modules
Version: 5.8.0-17

When perl-modules is installed but libperl-dev is not, ExtUtils::Embed
incorrectly reports -lperl to be available.

$ perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e ldopts
-rdynamic  -L/usr/local/lib /usr/lib/perl/5.8.0/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a -L/usr/lib/perl/5.8.0/CORE -lperl -ldl -lm -lpthread -lc -lcrypt


Someone suggested to me the following:
---
If

perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e ccopts
and
perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e ldopts

return valid data and we find xsubpp, I'm going to say that your installation is
broken, and there's nothing we should do about it. If perl's saying
"here's -lperl, really, right over here..." and that lib doesn't really
exist, it isn't our fault. Uninstalling libperl-dev should uninstall the
headers and ExtUtils::Embed packages, no questions asked.
---


[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Bug reassigned from package `perl-modules' to `perl'. Request was from Brendan O'Dea <bod@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Bug marked as found in version 5.8.0-17. Request was from Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:51:11 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Bug marked as found in version 5.10.0-8. Request was from Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:51:11 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Brendan O'Dea <bod@debian.org>:
Bug#186778; Package perl. (Tue, 05 May 2009 05:51:04 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Brendan O'Dea <bod@debian.org>. (Tue, 05 May 2009 05:51:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #16 received at 186778@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>
To: Stephen Waters <swaters@luy.info>, 186778@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#186778: ExtUtils::Embed problem when libperl-dev not installed
Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 08:47:49 +0300
On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 02:51:57PM -0600, Stephen Waters wrote:
> Package: perl-modules
> Version: 5.8.0-17
> 
> When perl-modules is installed but libperl-dev is not, ExtUtils::Embed
> incorrectly reports -lperl to be available.

> If
> 
> perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e ccopts
> and
> perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e ldopts
> 
> return valid data and we find xsubpp, I'm going to say that your installation is
> broken, and there's nothing we should do about it. If perl's saying
> "here's -lperl, really, right over here..." and that lib doesn't really
> exist, it isn't our fault. Uninstalling libperl-dev should uninstall the
> headers and ExtUtils::Embed packages, no questions asked.

Yes, it seems to me that ExtUtils::Embed belongs in libperl-dev. 

Brendan, what's the rationale for the current organization? 
I see you fixed #155319 in 5.8.0-7 by documenting the situation
in the ExtUtils::Embed manpage rather than moving the module.

No other module in perl-modules requires ExtUtils::Embed AFAICS, so that
part should not be a problem. Also, I expect that every package that
needs ExtUtils::Embed already depends on libperl-dev as the module is
quite useless otherwise.

If ExtUtils::Embed is moved, I suppose we could put a documentation
stub in perl-modules that points to the libperl-dev package.
(However, a stub module throwing an error seems too invasive to me.)
-- 
Niko Tyni   ntyni@debian.org




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>:
Bug#186778; Package perl. (Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:17:39 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>. (Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:18:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #21 received at 186778@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>
To: 186778@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#186778: ExtUtils::Embed problem when libperl-dev not installed
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 22:11:18 +0100
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 08:47:49AM +0300, Niko Tyni wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 02:51:57PM -0600, Stephen Waters wrote:
> > Package: perl-modules
> > Version: 5.8.0-17
> > 
> > When perl-modules is installed but libperl-dev is not, ExtUtils::Embed
> > incorrectly reports -lperl to be available.
> 
> > If
> > 
> > perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e ccopts
> > and
> > perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e ldopts
> > 
> > return valid data and we find xsubpp, I'm going to say that your installation is
> > broken, and there's nothing we should do about it. If perl's saying
> > "here's -lperl, really, right over here..." and that lib doesn't really
> > exist, it isn't our fault. Uninstalling libperl-dev should uninstall the
> > headers and ExtUtils::Embed packages, no questions asked.
> 
> Yes, it seems to me that ExtUtils::Embed belongs in libperl-dev. 
> 
> Brendan, what's the rationale for the current organization? 
> I see you fixed #155319 in 5.8.0-7 by documenting the situation
> in the ExtUtils::Embed manpage rather than moving the module.
> 
> No other module in perl-modules requires ExtUtils::Embed AFAICS, so that
> part should not be a problem. Also, I expect that every package that
> needs ExtUtils::Embed already depends on libperl-dev as the module is
> quite useless otherwise.

No response from Brendan in the bug log, but I don't see why we
shouldn't bite the bullet and do this.

> If ExtUtils::Embed is moved, I suppose we could put a documentation
> stub in perl-modules that points to the libperl-dev package.
> (However, a stub module throwing an error seems too invasive to me.)

I'm not sure that a stub is needed; a changelog entry should be
enough for this edge case.

-- 
Dominic Hargreaves | http://www.larted.org.uk/~dom/
PGP key 5178E2A5 from the.earth.li (keyserver,web,email)




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org:
Bug#186778; Package perl. (Thu, 02 Jun 2011 07:57:17 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. (Thu, 02 Jun 2011 07:57:19 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #26 received at 186778@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>
To: 186778@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#186778: ExtUtils::Embed problem when libperl-dev not installed
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:55:49 +0300
On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 10:11:18PM +0100, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
> On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 08:47:49AM +0300, Niko Tyni wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 02:51:57PM -0600, Stephen Waters wrote:
> > > Package: perl-modules
> > > Version: 5.8.0-17
> > > 
> > > When perl-modules is installed but libperl-dev is not, ExtUtils::Embed
> > > incorrectly reports -lperl to be available.

> > No other module in perl-modules requires ExtUtils::Embed AFAICS, so that
> > part should not be a problem. Also, I expect that every package that
> > needs ExtUtils::Embed already depends on libperl-dev as the module is
> > quite useless otherwise.
> 
> No response from Brendan in the bug log, but I don't see why we
> shouldn't bite the bullet and do this.

There's the argument that a normal system should have all or nothing
of the upstream perl distribution installed. Although we're sort of
violating that already with the missing libperl.so symlink, a missing
ExtUtils::Embed is a somewhat clearer case of "crippling perl."

TBH, after the last time I tried to split out the dual lived modules [1]
I don't have much enthusiasm in pursuing such changes.

I'm slightly inclined to keep the status quo with ExtUtils::EMbed until
(if?) things change with the dual lived modules, but YMMV.

[1] threads at http://lists.debian.org/debian-perl/2010/11/msg00017.html
    and http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/perl5-porters/2010-11/msg00499.html
-- 
Niko Tyni   ntyni@debian.org




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>:
Bug#186778; Package perl. (Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:54:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>. (Thu, 02 Jun 2011 17:54:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #31 received at 186778@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>
To: 186778@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#186778: ExtUtils::Embed problem when libperl-dev not installed
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 18:51:23 +0100
On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 10:55:49AM +0300, Niko Tyni wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 10:11:18PM +0100, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
> > On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 08:47:49AM +0300, Niko Tyni wrote:
> > > On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 02:51:57PM -0600, Stephen Waters wrote:
> > > > Package: perl-modules
> > > > Version: 5.8.0-17
> > > > 
> > > > When perl-modules is installed but libperl-dev is not, ExtUtils::Embed
> > > > incorrectly reports -lperl to be available.
> 
> > > No other module in perl-modules requires ExtUtils::Embed AFAICS, so that
> > > part should not be a problem. Also, I expect that every package that
> > > needs ExtUtils::Embed already depends on libperl-dev as the module is
> > > quite useless otherwise.
> > 
> > No response from Brendan in the bug log, but I don't see why we
> > shouldn't bite the bullet and do this.
> 
> There's the argument that a normal system should have all or nothing
> of the upstream perl distribution installed. Although we're sort of
> violating that already with the missing libperl.so symlink, a missing
> ExtUtils::Embed is a somewhat clearer case of "crippling perl."
> 
> TBH, after the last time I tried to split out the dual lived modules [1]
> I don't have much enthusiasm in pursuing such changes.
> 
> I'm slightly inclined to keep the status quo with ExtUtils::EMbed until
> (if?) things change with the dual lived modules, but YMMV.

Right, yes, I understand your position. In that case the other
possible fix for this bug would be to patch ExtUtils::Embed to detect
the missing libperl-dev files (this is not a high priority item).

Dominic.

-- 
Dominic Hargreaves | http://www.larted.org.uk/~dom/
PGP key 5178E2A5 from the.earth.li (keyserver,web,email)




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>:
Bug#186778; Package perl. (Sun, 05 Jun 2011 16:21:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Niko Tyni <ntyni@debian.org>. (Sun, 05 Jun 2011 16:21:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #36 received at 186778@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>
To: 186778@bugs.debian.org, 624508@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#186778: ExtUtils::Embed problem when libperl-dev not installed
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 17:15:58 +0100
On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 06:51:23PM +0100, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 10:55:49AM +0300, Niko Tyni wrote:

> > There's the argument that a normal system should have all or nothing
> > of the upstream perl distribution installed. Although we're sort of
> > violating that already with the missing libperl.so symlink, a missing
> > ExtUtils::Embed is a somewhat clearer case of "crippling perl."
> > 
> > TBH, after the last time I tried to split out the dual lived modules [1]
> > I don't have much enthusiasm in pursuing such changes.
> > 
> > I'm slightly inclined to keep the status quo with ExtUtils::EMbed until
> > (if?) things change with the dual lived modules, but YMMV.
> 
> Right, yes, I understand your position. In that case the other
> possible fix for this bug would be to patch ExtUtils::Embed to detect
> the missing libperl-dev files (this is not a high priority item).

Note that we already patch the documentation noting that libperl-dev
is needed on Debian, debian/extutils_hacks.diff, and we should keep
that.

-- 
Dominic Hargreaves | http://www.larted.org.uk/~dom/
PGP key 5178E2A5 from the.earth.li (keyserver,web,email)




Severity set to 'minor' from 'normal' Request was from Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:58:17 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Reply sent to Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>:
You have taken responsibility. (Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:39:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to Stephen Waters <swaters@luy.info>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. (Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:39:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #43 received at 186778-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dominic Hargreaves <dom@earth.li>
To: 186778-done@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#186778: ExtUtils::Embed problem when libperl-dev not installed
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:37:08 +0100
On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 05:15:58PM +0100, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 06:51:23PM +0100, Dominic Hargreaves wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 10:55:49AM +0300, Niko Tyni wrote:
> 
> > > There's the argument that a normal system should have all or nothing
> > > of the upstream perl distribution installed. Although we're sort of
> > > violating that already with the missing libperl.so symlink, a missing
> > > ExtUtils::Embed is a somewhat clearer case of "crippling perl."
> > > 
> > > TBH, after the last time I tried to split out the dual lived modules [1]
> > > I don't have much enthusiasm in pursuing such changes.
> > > 
> > > I'm slightly inclined to keep the status quo with ExtUtils::EMbed until
> > > (if?) things change with the dual lived modules, but YMMV.
> > 
> > Right, yes, I understand your position. In that case the other
> > possible fix for this bug would be to patch ExtUtils::Embed to detect
> > the missing libperl-dev files (this is not a high priority item).
> 
> Note that we already patch the documentation noting that libperl-dev
> is needed on Debian, debian/extutils_hacks.diff, and we should keep
> that.

This has been carried for some time. Closing this bug.

-- 
Dominic Hargreaves | http://www.larted.org.uk/~dom/
PGP key 5178E2A5 from the.earth.li (keyserver,web,email)




Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Mon, 11 Jul 2011 07:35:13 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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