Debian Bug report logs - #181124
gnome frontend fallback failed somehow

Package: debconf; Maintainer for debconf is Debconf Developers <debconf-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>; Source for debconf is src:debconf.

Reported by: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>

Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:33:02 UTC

Severity: normal

Tags: moreinfo, unreproducible

Done: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

Toggle useless messages

View this report as an mbox folder, status mbox, maintainer mbox


Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package general. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:29:02 +0000
Package: general
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-02-15
Severity: normal



-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux highfield 2.5.3 #8 Sun Dec 15 21:03:09 GMT 2002 i686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C

This is not a "normal" severity it is a show-stopper severity
for ordinary users.

installing dselect with the gnome front-end followed by then
removing gnome results in dpkg, and apt, and dselect all failing
to be able to configure any packages end of story.

a single error in installing then subsequently makes it impossible
to recover using ANY method, e.g. apt-get -f install, and things
get into a totally unusable state.

this is very daft: what should happen is that the dpkg / dselect
configuration files should fall back to using the console front-end
when gnome is removed.

there are some broken dependencies somewhere in dselect itself
that need to be sorted out.





Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package general. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #10 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>
To: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>, 181124@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:07:12 -0500
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 04:29:02PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> a single error in installing then subsequently makes it impossible
> to recover using ANY method, e.g. apt-get -f install, and things
> get into a totally unusable state.

not to minimize this problem (yes, debconf should fall back to another
frontend if one fails), but i believe there still is a way to fix
your problem.  check out debconf-communicate(1) and debconf-show(1).
you can use them to get/set debconf db variables (such as 
debconf/frontend)


hth
	sean
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package general. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>
To: sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>
Cc: 181124@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:08:26 +0000
sean,

thank you _very_ much for responding on this issue.

the first-time install process _does_ say "set the
dselect communication method, you can change it easily later on"
but it doesn't say HOW!!!!

additionally, finding _out_ how is totally impossible unless
you happen to know.

it's not specified anywhere.

man debconf shows -ftype which i only just found in the last
30 seconds but it is not specified what the front-end types
are!


for both an advanced and experienced debian/gnu-linux user
such as myself,

	_and_

for an inexperienced redhat-rpmmy-webminny-user
recent-convert-to-debian-because-of-me such as my
brother,

this issue has us completely exasperated.

dan wants to do debian with as much graphical interfacey
stuff as he can get away with, i do not know what possessed
him to try uninstalling gnome, maybe because it was grinding
his turbo-charged computer into the ground and he had enough
of it thrashing about on an overloaded GUI and got rid of it.


even the commands that you very kindly pointed me to require
information that is lacking before they can be of value.

neither the commands themselves nor their man pages show
you _what_ is needed to be set or got in order to fix the
problem.


dan has temporarily reinstalled gnome...

[btw for an inexperienced unix user and even an experienced one
 the level of expertise required to run gnu/linux is quite high.
 it's not that things aren't possible it's just that if you
 don't know, you can never find out how.
 
 presenting simple text "this is what you can do, here are
 your options, pick one" would go a long long way. ]


On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 12:07:12PM -0500, sean finney wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 04:29:02PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> > a single error in installing then subsequently makes it impossible
> > to recover using ANY method, e.g. apt-get -f install, and things
> > get into a totally unusable state.
> 
> not to minimize this problem (yes, debconf should fall back to another
> frontend if one fails), but i believe there still is a way to fix
> your problem.  check out debconf-communicate(1) and debconf-show(1).
> you can use them to get/set debconf db variables (such as 
> debconf/frontend)
> 
> 
> hth
> 	sean



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Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package general. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #20 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>
To: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>, 181124@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:00:25 -0500
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 06:08:26PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> man debconf shows -ftype which i only just found in the last
> 30 seconds but it is not specified what the front-end types
> are!

the choices are:

Dialog, Readline, Gnome, Editor, Noninteractive

but i cheated to get that, with a little 

grep -C debconf/frontend /var/cache/debconf/templates.dat

> dan wants to do debian with as much graphical interfacey
> stuff as he can get away with, i do not know what possessed
> him to try uninstalling gnome, maybe because it was grinding
> his turbo-charged computer into the ground and he had enough
> of it thrashing about on an overloaded GUI and got rid of it.

yeah, well like i said, i agree that debconf should attempt to
fall back on alternative frontends in case of failure (or maybe
just default to Noninteractive or Readline).

> even the commands that you very kindly pointed me to require
> information that is lacking before they can be of value.

debconf-show debconf

gives you a list of debconf settings for the debconf package

echo set debconf/frontend yourfrontendofchoicehere | debconf-communicate

will set the frontend accordingly


hth
	sean
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package general. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Rene Engelhard <rene@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #25 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Rene Engelhard <rene@debian.org>
To: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>, 181124@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:41:50 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> sean,
> 
> thank you _very_ much for responding on this issue.
> 
> the first-time install process _does_ say "set the
> dselect communication method, you can change it easily later on"
> but it doesn't say HOW!!!!

dpkg-reconfigure debconf

Regards,

Rene
-- 
 .''`.  Rene Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer
 : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/
 `. `'  rene@debian.org | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73
   `-   Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB  7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package general. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #30 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
To: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>, 181124@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:59:01 -0500
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> the first-time install process _does_ say "set the
> dselect communication method, you can change it easily later on"
> but it doesn't say HOW!!!!

Um, did you install Debian 2.2 (potato)? IIRC, that was the last version
of Debian to ask you anything about debconf when it was installed.

Of course, it doesn't use the words you used above, since this has nothing
to do with dselect. I suspect you are misremembering whatever it is you
saw.

> additionally, finding _out_ how is totally impossible unless
> you happen to know.
> 
> it's not specified anywhere.
> 
> man debconf shows -ftype which i only just found in the last
> 30 seconds but it is not specified what the front-end types
> are!

All the debconf man pages also refer you via the SEE ALSO section to
debconf(7), which has a complete user tutorial, descriptions of all
available debconf frontends, and examples of everything.

Frontends
       One  of  debconf's unique features is that the interface it presents to
       you is only one of many, that can be swapped in at will. There are many
       debconf frontends available:

       dialog The  default  frontend, this uses the whiptail (1) or dialog (1)
              programs to display questions to you. It works in text mode.

       readline
              The most traditional frontend, this looks quite similar  to  how
              Debian  configuration  always  has  been: a series of questions,
              printed out at the console using plain text,  and  prompts  done
              using the readline library. It even supports tab completion. The
              libterm-readline-gnu-perl package is strongly recommended if you
              chose  to  use  this frontend; the default readline module isn't
              really good enough.

              This frontend has some special hotkeys. Pageup (or ctrl-u)  will
              go  back  to  the previous question (if that is supported by the
              package that is using debconf), and pagedown  (or  ctrl-v)  will
              skip forward to the next question.

              This is the best frontend for remote admin work over a slow con-
              nection, or for those who are comfortable with unix.

       noninteractive
              This is the anti-frontend. It never interacts with you  at  all,
              and makes the default answers be used for all questions. It will
              occasionally mail root with messages the package wanted to  dis-
              play,  but that's it; otherwise it is completly silent and unob-
              trusive, a perfect frontend for automatic installs.  If you  are
              using  this  front-end, and require non-default answers to ques-
              tions, you will need to pre-populate the debconf  database;  see
              the  section  below  on Unattended Package Installation for more
              details.

       gnome  This is a modern X GUI using the gtk  and  gnome  libraries.  Of
              course,  it  requires a valid DISPLAY to work; debconf will fall
              back to other frontends if it can't work. Note that  this  fron-
              tend requires you have the libgnome-perl package installed.

       editor This  is  for those fanatics who have to do everything in a text
              editor. It runs your editor on a file that looks something  like
              a typical unix config file, and you edit the file to communicate
              with debconf. Debconf's author takes the fifth amendment regard-
              ing the circumstances that led to this frontend being written.

       web
              This  frontend  acts  as  a web server, that you connect to with
              your web browser, to browse the questions and answer  them.   It
              has  a  lot of promise, but is a little rough so far.  When this
              frontend starts up, it will print out the  location  you  should
              point  your  web  browser to. You have to run the web browser on
              the same machine you are configuring, for security reasons.

              Do keep in mind that this is not a very secure frontend.  Anyone
              who  has  access  to the computer being configured can currently
              access the web server and configure things while  this  frontend
              is running. So this is more of a proof of concept than anything.

       You can change the default frontend debconf uses by reconfiguring  deb-
       conf.  On the other hand, if you just want to change the frontend for a
       minute, you can set the DEBIAN_FRONTEND  environment  variable  to  the
       name of the frontend to use. For example:
         DEBIAN_FRONTEND=readline apt-get install slrn

       The  dpkg-reconfigure  (8)  and dpkg-preconfigure (8) commands also let
       you pass --frontend= to them, followed by the frontend you want them to
       use.

       Note  that not all frontends will work in all circumstances. If a fron-
       tend fails to start up for some reason, debconf will print out  a  mes-
       sage explaining why, and fall back to the next-most similar frontend.

-- 
see shy jo
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package general. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to debian-devel@lists.debian.org, general@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #35 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
To: sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>, 181124@bugs.debian.org
Cc: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:49:39 -0500
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
sean finney wrote:
> not to minimize this problem (yes, debconf should fall back to another
> frontend if one fails), but i believe there still is a way to fix
> your problem.  check out debconf-communicate(1) and debconf-show(1).
> you can use them to get/set debconf db variables (such as 
> debconf/frontend)

I don't really know what you guys are talking about, debconf *does* fall
back to other frontends should any fail.

root@dragon:/home/joey>dpkg-reconfigure debconf -fgnome
debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Gnome
debconf: (Unable to load Gnome -- is libgnome-perl installed?)
debconf: falling back to frontend: Dialog

-- 
see shy jo
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Tags added: unreproducible Request was from Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Tags added: moreinfo Request was from Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Changed Bug title. Request was from Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Bug reassigned from package `general' to `debconf'. Request was from Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, debconf@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package debconf. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, debconf@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #48 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>
To: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
Cc: 181124@bugs.debian.org, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:27:56 -0500
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 02:49:39PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> I don't really know what you guys are talking about, debconf *does* fall
> back to other frontends should any fail.
> 
> root@dragon:/home/joey>dpkg-reconfigure debconf -fgnome
> debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Gnome
> debconf: (Unable to load Gnome -- is libgnome-perl installed?)
> debconf: falling back to frontend: Dialog

i hadn't bothered to try it myself, and now that i have i get the
same results as joey...  could you send the output of what happens
when you try dpkg-reconfigure debconf?


	sean
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, debconf@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package debconf. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, debconf@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #53 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>
To: sean finney <seanius@seanius.net>
Cc: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, 181124@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:36:09 +0000
On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 04:27:56PM -0500, sean finney wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 02:49:39PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> > I don't really know what you guys are talking about, debconf *does* fall
> > back to other frontends should any fail.
> > 
> > root@dragon:/home/joey>dpkg-reconfigure debconf -fgnome
> > debconf: unable to initialize frontend: Gnome
> > debconf: (Unable to load Gnome -- is libgnome-perl installed?)
> > debconf: falling back to frontend: Dialog
 
> i hadn't bothered to try it myself, and now that i have i get the
> same results as joey...  could you send the output of what happens
> when you try dpkg-reconfigure debconf?
 
 the only other possible thing is that the gdm2 package was not
 installed at the time (uninstalled).

 the hypothesis for refutation is therefore:
 
 	"the combination of a debconf error _and_ gdm2 not being there
 	 caused a 'sorry dpkg failed try doing that apt-get -f install'
     thing".

 of course, _doing_ an apt-get -f install failed because gdm2
 wasn't installed and various other packages were in the process
 of being removed and others reinstalled (e.g. sendmail).


 now that gnome has been temporarily reinstated on this system,
 (because it is far more necessary to get it working than it
  is to find out exactly how the bug occurred), and the person
 that managed to get the system into an unusable state is not
 an experienced developer, it is not possible at this time to
 get exact repro information.

 all that i can provide you is second-hand information that
 you should take at face value, and that:
 
 - "something went badly wrong" and

 - "an inexperienced user now doesn't like debian" and

 - "an experienced debian user couldn't help him, either".

 
 if nothing else perhaps this is one to lodge as "wait for someone
 else to come across it", or "try to reproduce this when having
 nothing else better to do".

 what _has_ come out of this that is clear is that debian is
 very dangerous for inexperienced users to play with, because
 they can get into a right mess unless it installs perfectly
 first time.

 l.




Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, debconf@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#181124; Package debconf. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>, debconf@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #58 received at 181124@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>
To: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
Cc: 181124@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#181124: general: install dselect with gnome front-end, then remove gnome, dselect fails
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:42:33 +0000
On Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 02:59:01PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> > the first-time install process _does_ say "set the
> > dselect communication method, you can change it easily later on"
> > but it doesn't say HOW!!!!
> 
> Um, did you install Debian 2.2 (potato)? IIRC, that was the last version
> of Debian to ask you anything about debconf when it was installed.

> Of course, it doesn't use the words you used above, since this has nothing
> to do with dselect. I suspect you are misremembering whatever it is you
> saw.
 
 joey, thanks for taking the time to respond on this rather bizarre
 and wooly issue.

 this is a second-hand report from an inexperienced user, over
 the phone.

 i grabbed as many details as i could, before having to move on.

 i believe that the system would have been installed off of potato
 CDs, i will have to ask.


> > additionally, finding _out_ how is totally impossible unless
> > you happen to know.
> > 
> > it's not specified anywhere.
> > 
> > man debconf shows -ftype which i only just found in the last
> > 30 seconds but it is not specified what the front-end types
> > are!
> 
> All the debconf man pages also refer you via the SEE ALSO section to
> debconf(7), which has a complete user tutorial, descriptions of all
> available debconf frontends, and examples of everything.
 
 this is on _my_ computer not the one that the problems are on.

 i keep my system reasonably up-to-date (last done 3 weeks ago)
 with apt-get upgrade.


# man 7 debconf:
no manual page info for debconf in section 7

also:

# dpkg-reconfigure debconf
#



Tags added: moreinfo Request was from Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Reply sent to Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@samba-tng.org>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #65 received at 181124-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>
To: 181124-done@bugs.debian.org
Subject: closing
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 00:54:35 -0500
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Closing this bug; there have been several changes to debconf gnome
fallback over the years, and this bug seems unlikely to be reporucible.

-- 
see shy jo
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Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:38:41 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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