Debian Bug report logs - #128852
Ultra-newbie introductory documentation needed somewhere

Package: general; Maintainer for general is debian-devel@lists.debian.org;

Reported by: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 01:48:05 UTC

Severity: wishlist

Done: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Bug#128852; Package doc-linux-text. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at maintonly@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <maintonly@bugs.debian.org>
Subject: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:37:36 -0700
Package: doc-linux-text
Version: 2001.12-1
Severity: wishlist
Tags: patch

I was discussing bash's response of 'command not found' in bug 106170
with Matthias Klose and Matt Zimmerman. My idea was that bash could
make a reference to dhelp to give new users a place to start when they
are just beginning. But dhelp is not installed as standard.

Matthias' suggestion was even better, I think: point to a text
document somewhere that gives a lottle bootstrapping information for
users just getting their feet wet in *nix.

Since doc-linux-text is installed by default in new installations, and
since this qualifies as linux doc (text), I think it should go in your
package. 

Here is the proposed doc. 


/usr/share/doc/doc-linux-text/README-commands.txt

   This is a jumping-off reference point for new users who may be
   completely unfamiliar with Linux commands. It does not contain all
   the information you need about using the Linux console, but instead
   just gives you enough information to get started finding the
   information you need.

Linux Commands

   To run a command, type the command at the prompt, followed by any
   necessary options, and then press the Enter or Return key. 

   Most commands operate silently unless they are specifically asked to
   say what they are doing. If there is no error message, the command
   should have worked.

   The operation of most commands can be changed by putting command
   options immediately after the command name. There are several styles
   of options used, and you have to check the documentation for each
   command to know what options it can take, and what they do.

   Linux commands are case-sensitive, and almost always are all
   lower-case. ls is a valid command; LS is not.

   In most cases you can use the tab key to ask the command shell to
   auto-complete the command, directory or filename you have started
   to type. If a unique completion exists, the shell will type it. If
   not, you can press tab a second time to obtain a list of the
   possible auto-completions.

Commands for Reading Documentation

   In the following command examples, the [ ] characters are not
   typed, they mean that whatever is enclosed is optional. For
   example, you can also start `info' without any subject at all.

   When a given keyboard shortcut is preceded by ctrl- or alt- , that
   means hold the control or alt key down, and type the given key
   while holding it down (the same way you use the shift key). A
   shorthand notation for ctrl- is ^ (^C means ctrl-C).

   man subject
          man shows the manual page on the command (use q or ctrl-C to
          get out of it if it doesn't terminate at the end of the
          text).

   info [subject]
          A lot of Debian Linux documentation is provided in info
          format. This is similar to a hypertext format, in that you
          can jump to other sections of the documentation by following
          links embedded in the text. An info tutorial is available
          within info, using ctrl-h followed by h. 

   help [subject]
          Use help for on-line help about the shell's built-in commands.
          help by itself prints a list of subjects for which you can
          ask for help.

   pager filename
	  pager displays a plain text file one screen at a time.
          Additional screens can be displayed by pressing the space
          bar, and previous screens can be displayed by pressing the b
          key. When finished viewing the help, press q to return to
          the prompt.

   Using -h --help with | pager
          Most commands offer very brief built-in help by typing the
          command followed by 

            -h or --help
         
          If the help scrolls up beyond the top of the screen before 
          you can read it, add 

            | pager 

          to the end of the command.

   zmore document.gz
          zmore is a document pager -- it displays the contents of
          compressed documentation on your disk, one screenful at a
          time. Compression is signified by filenames ending in .gz .

   lynx [document]  or  lynx [directory]  or  lynx [url]
          lynx is a text-based web browser. It can display documents
          (plain-text, compressed, or html), directory listings, and
          urls such as www.google.com. It does not display images.

Commands for Navigating Directories

   pwd
          Displays your current working directory. The p stands for
          print, which is a carryover from when unix was designed,
          before the advent of computer screens. Interactive computer
          responses were printed on paper by a connected electric
          typewriter instead of being displayed electronically.

   cd [directory]
          Change your current directory to the named directory. If you
          don't specify directory, you will be returned to your home
          directory. The `root' directory is signified by / at the
          beginning of the directory path ( / also separates directory
          and file names within the path). Thus paths beginning with /
          are `absolute' paths; cd will take you to an absolute path
          no matter what your current directory is. Paths not
          beginning with / specify paths relative to your
          current directory. cd .. means change to the parent
          directory of your current working directory.

   ls [directory]
          ls lists the contents of directory. If you don't specify a
          directory name, the current working directory's list is
          displayed.

   find directory -name filename
          find tells you where filename is in the tree starting at
          directory. This command has many other useful options.

Documentation Indices

   The standard doc-linux-text package installs compressed text linux
   HOWTOs in

        /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-txt/

   Particularly helpful HOWTOs for new users are

        /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-txt/Unix-and-Internet-Fundamentals-HOWTO.gz
        /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-txt/mini/INDEX.gz
        /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-txt/Reading-List-HOWTO.gz
        /usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-txt/META-FAQ.gz        

   Individual package documentation is installed in

        /usr/share/doc/<package-name> 

   New user website references include

       http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ
       http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP/gs/gs.html

Recording User Sessions

   script filename
          Use script to record everything that appears on the screen
          (until the next exit) in filename. This is useful if you
          need to record what's going on in order to include it in
          your message when you ask for help. Use exit, logout or
          ctrl-D to stop the recording session.

Turning Echo On/Off

   To turn off echoing of characters to the screen, you can use
   ctrl-S. ctrl-Q starts the echo again. If your terminal suddenly
   seems to become unresponsive, try ctrl-Q; you may have accidentally
   typed ctrl-S which activated echo-off.

Virtual Consoles

   By default, six virtual consoles are provided. If you want to
   execute another command without interrupting the operation of a
   command you previously started, you can switch to another virtual
   console (similar to a separate window). This is very handy for
   displaying the documentation for a command in one console while
   actually trying the command in another. Switch consoles 1 through 6
   by using alt-F1 through alt-F6. 

Logging Out

   exit   or   logout

          Use exit or logout to terminate your session and log
          out. You should be returned to the log-in prompt.

Turning Off the Computer

   Turning the computer on and off is really a system administration
   subject, but I include it here because it is something that every
   user who is his own administrator needs to know.

   halt   or   shutdown -t 0 -h now
          This command shuts the computer down safely. You can also
          use ctrl-alt-del if your system is set up for that. (If you
          are in X, ctrl-alt-del will be intercepted by X. Get out of
          X first by using ctrl-alt-backspace.)


To display this file one screen at a time, type 

pager /usr/share/doc/doc-linux-text/README-commands.txt




(I think it would be better to add a shell script named something like
helpcmds instead of making the user type this.



-- System Information
Debian Release: 3.0
Architecture: powerpc
Kernel: Linux Obsession 2.2.19 #1 Sat Apr 14 23:20:24 CDT 2001 ppc
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C




Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and filed, but not forwarded.

You requested that the message be sent to the package maintainer(s) but either the Bug report is not associated with any package (probably because of a missing Package pseudo-header field in the original Bug report), or the package(s) specified do not have any maintainer(s).

Your message has *not* been sent to any package maintainers; it has merely been filed in the Bug tracking system. If you require assistance please contact owner@bugs.debian.org quoting the Bug number 128852.

Full text and rfc822 format available.


Message #8 received at 128852-maintonly@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>, 128852-maintonly@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-doc@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 02:26:16 +0000
On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 06:37:36PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote:
> I was discussing bash's response of 'command not found' in bug 106170
> with Matthias Klose and Matt Zimmerman. My idea was that bash could
> make a reference to dhelp to give new users a place to start when they
> are just beginning. But dhelp is not installed as standard.
> 
> Matthias' suggestion was even better, I think: point to a text
> document somewhere that gives a lottle bootstrapping information for
> users just getting their feet wet in *nix.
> 
> Since doc-linux-text is installed by default in new installations, and
> since this qualifies as linux doc (text), I think it should go in your
> package. 

I figured I ought to run this past debian-doc first. Is doc-linux-text
the right place for this? The obvious alternative is doc-debian. I'm not
necessarily opposed to this proposal (nor am I trying to get rid of a
bug without doing anything!), but doc-linux's remit is to provide the
documentation from the Linux Documentation Project, not to be a general
repository for system documentation, and I would like some wider
discussion before extending this too much.

Also note that your documentation would be equally useful for new Debian
GNU/Hurd (and possibly Debian GNU/BSD in the future?) users, although at
the moment such new users are likely to be fairly technically competent
already.

> /usr/share/doc/doc-linux-text/README-commands.txt
> 
>    This is a jumping-off reference point for new users who may be
>    completely unfamiliar with Linux commands. It does not contain all
>    the information you need about using the Linux console, but instead
>    just gives you enough information to get started finding the
>    information you need.

Are you sure that all this wouldn't fit better in a proper HOWTO or
mini-HOWTO? The existing getting-started-type documents are slightly
less of an introduction from scratch than this, true, but that's not to
say that an even more newbie-friendly document like this in the LDP
collection would be a bad idea: imagine the Debian-Introduction
mini-HOWTO, for example. I would then be happy to refer to that
specially from /usr/share/doc/doc-linux-text/README.Debian, and you'd
still have the document installed by default.

>    info [subject]
>           A lot of Debian Linux documentation

Pet peeve: I think our documentation should generally use the correct
name for the distribution, i.e. "Debian GNU/Linux".

> (I think it would be better to add a shell script named something like
> helpcmds instead of making the user type this.

doc-linux currently includes no binaries or scripts, but I suppose
/usr/bin/debian-intro or something would be possible. Comments?

I think this is a good document, and that it would be useful to have
installed on standard systems. I'm just not entirely sure what the right
place for it is.

To debian-doc: please copy all followups to bug #128852.

Thanks,

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]



Information forwarded to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Bug#128852; Package doc-linux-text. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to maintainer. Copy sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #13 received at 128852-maintonly@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>
To: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
Cc: 128852-maintonly@bugs.debian.org, debian-doc@lists.debian.org, 106170@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:49:48 -0700
On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 02:26:16AM +0000, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 06:37:36PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote:
> > I was discussing bash's response of 'command not found' in bug 106170
> > with Matthias Klose and Matt Zimmerman. My idea was that bash could
> > make a reference to dhelp to give new users a place to start when they
> > are just beginning. But dhelp is not installed as standard.
> > 
> > Matthias' suggestion was even better, I think: point to a text
> > document somewhere that gives a lottle bootstrapping information for
> > users just getting their feet wet in *nix.
> > 
> > Since doc-linux-text is installed by default in new installations, and
> > since this qualifies as linux doc (text), I think it should go in your
> > package. 
> 
> I figured I ought to run this past debian-doc first. Is doc-linux-text
> the right place for this? The obvious alternative is doc-debian. I'm not
> necessarily opposed to this proposal (nor am I trying to get rid of a
> bug without doing anything!), but doc-linux's remit is to provide the
> documentation from the Linux Documentation Project, not to be a general
> repository for system documentation, and I would like some wider
> discussion before extending this too much.

Yes, that sounds right.

> Also note that your documentation would be equally useful for new Debian
> GNU/Hurd (and possibly Debian GNU/BSD in the future?) users, although at
> the moment such new users are likely to be fairly technically competent
> already.
> 
> > /usr/share/doc/doc-linux-text/README-commands.txt
> > 
> >    This is a jumping-off reference point for new users who may be
> >    completely unfamiliar with Linux commands. It does not contain all
> >    the information you need about using the Linux console, but instead
> >    just gives you enough information to get started finding the
> >    information you need.
> 
> Are you sure that all this wouldn't fit better in a proper HOWTO or
> mini-HOWTO? The existing getting-started-type documents are slightly
> less of an introduction from scratch than this, true, but that's not to
> say that an even more newbie-friendly document like this in the LDP
> collection would be a bad idea: imagine the Debian-Introduction
> mini-HOWTO, for example. I would then be happy to refer to that
> specially from /usr/share/doc/doc-linux-text/README.Debian, and you'd
> still have the document installed by default.

This makes a lot of sense. I'm willing to initiate that.

> >    info [subject]
> >           A lot of Debian Linux documentation
> 
> Pet peeve: I think our documentation should generally use the correct
> name for the distribution, i.e. "Debian GNU/Linux".
> 
> > (I think it would be better to add a shell script named something like
> > helpcmds instead of making the user type this.
> 
> doc-linux currently includes no binaries or scripts, but I suppose
> /usr/bin/debian-intro or something would be possible. Comments?
> 
> I think this is a good document, and that it would be useful to have
> installed on standard systems. I'm just not entirely sure what the right
> place for it is.
> 
> To debian-doc: please copy all followups to bug #128852.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]
> 

-- 
*------v--------- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 --------v------*
|      <http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual>      |
|   debian-imac (potato): <http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net>   |
|            Chris Tillman        tillman@azstarnet.com          |
|                   May the Source be with you                   |
*----------------------------------------------------------------*



Information forwarded to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Bug#128852; Package doc-linux-text. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña <jfs@computer.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to maintainer. Copy sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #18 received at 128852-maintonly@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña <jfs@computer.org>
To: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>, 128852-maintonly@bugs.debian.org, debian-doc@lists.debian.org, 106170@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 20:19:10 +0100
	You might want to take a look at 'ayuda' it is a (rather outdated)
script which runs a user through some menus in order to explain him stuff
of his system.
	'Ayuda' BTW is 'help' in Spanish. Debian package is available, and
some people at laespiral.org are working in a common framework (using a
database) which could allow for inclusion of new texts and keep them up to
date.

	Regards

	Javi



Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and filed, but not forwarded. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #21 received at 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>, 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-doc@lists.debian.org, debian-boot@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:19:38 +0000
On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 02:26:16AM +0000, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 06:37:36PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote:
> > Matthias' suggestion was even better, I think: point to a text
> > document somewhere that gives a lottle bootstrapping information for
> > users just getting their feet wet in *nix.
> > 
> > Since doc-linux-text is installed by default in new installations, and
> > since this qualifies as linux doc (text), I think it should go in your
> > package. 
> 
> I figured I ought to run this past debian-doc first. Is doc-linux-text
> the right place for this? The obvious alternative is doc-debian. I'm not
> necessarily opposed to this proposal (nor am I trying to get rid of a
> bug without doing anything!), but doc-linux's remit is to provide the
> documentation from the Linux Documentation Project, not to be a general
> repository for system documentation, and I would like some wider
> discussion before extending this too much.

Josip suggested the install-doc package from boot-floppies, which sounds
like an ideal location to me. Perhaps it would be a good idea to bump
install-doc to standard (possibly with the PDF files split out), add it
to debootstrap, and add a simple file or two of the utter-newbie "oh my
God, how do I use this thing?" documentation that Chris suggested.
install-doc would also be useful on standard installations due to things
like the dselect tutorial.

Comments?

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]



Information forwarded to doc-linux@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#128852; Package doc-linux-text. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and filed, but not forwarded. Copy sent to doc-linux@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #26 received at 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org
Subject: [tillman@azstarnet.com: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers]
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:16:59 -0500
Forwarding some extra stuff from the list discussion to this bug.

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]

----- Forwarded message from Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com> -----

Resent-Date: 12 Jan 2002 20:54:35 -0000
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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 13:55:07 -0700
From: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>
To: debian-doc@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Mail-Followup-To: debian-doc@lists.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <20020112191910.GF12424@dat.etsit.upm.es>
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On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 08:19:10PM +0100, Javier Fern?ndez-Sanguino Pe?a wrote:
> 
> 	You might want to take a look at 'ayuda' it is a (rather outdated)
> script which runs a user through some menus in order to explain him stuff
> of his system.
> 	'Ayuda' BTW is 'help' in Spanish. Debian package is available, and
> some people at laespiral.org are working in a common framework (using a
> database) which could allow for inclusion of new texts and keep them up to
> date.
> 
> 	Regards
> 
> 	Javi

This is a very nice little package. That's what I call a friendly
newbie help system! The only thing I didn't see explained is how to
scroll the text (space bar, b, and arrow keys all work).

Yes, I think it would be excellent to extend something like this, and
make it extensible to other languages. The script is basically
all hard coded now. Perhaps boot-floppies lang-chooser would be a
framework to work from? I surfed laespiral.org, including the cvs
server, but couldn't locate the project you speak of. (But I'm just
sort-of familiar with Spanish, so it might have been staring me in the
face).

It seems to be similar to debconf; but I suppose debconf's database is
not meant to include help text.

The swish++ text-search database recently incorporated into dhelp
might be a good fit.

-- 
*------v--------- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 --------v------*
|      <http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual>      |
|   debian-imac (potato): <http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net>   |
|            Chris Tillman        tillman@azstarnet.com          |
|                   May the Source be with you                   |
*----------------------------------------------------------------*


----- End forwarded message -----



Information forwarded to doc-linux@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#128852; Package doc-linux-text. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and filed, but not forwarded. Copy sent to doc-linux@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #31 received at 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org
Subject: [tillman@azstarnet.com: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers]
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:17:25 -0500
Forwarding some extra stuff from the list discussion to this bug.

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]

----- Forwarded message from Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com> -----

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Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:23:01 -0700
From: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>
To: debian-doc@lists.debian.org, debian-boot@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
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On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 01:19:38AM +0000, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 02:26:16AM +0000, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 06:37:36PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote:
> > > Matthias' suggestion was even better, I think: point to a text
> > > document somewhere that gives a lottle bootstrapping information for
> > > users just getting their feet wet in *nix.
> > > 
> > > Since doc-linux-text is installed by default in new installations, and
> > > since this qualifies as linux doc (text), I think it should go in your
> > > package. 
> > 
> > I figured I ought to run this past debian-doc first. Is doc-linux-text
> > the right place for this? The obvious alternative is doc-debian. I'm not
> > necessarily opposed to this proposal (nor am I trying to get rid of a
> > bug without doing anything!), but doc-linux's remit is to provide the
> > documentation from the Linux Documentation Project, not to be a general
> > repository for system documentation, and I would like some wider
> > discussion before extending this too much.
> 
> Josip suggested the install-doc package from boot-floppies, which sounds
> like an ideal location to me. Perhaps it would be a good idea to bump
> install-doc to standard (possibly with the PDF files split out), add it
> to debootstrap, and add a simple file or two of the utter-newbie "oh my
> God, how do I use this thing?" documentation that Chris suggested.
> install-doc would also be useful on standard installations due to things
> like the dselect tutorial.
> 
> Comments?

:-) I love that description. But really, it's accurate when any
non-technical person is first faced with a *nix console. And some
technical people too!

Which gives me an idea for the name: virginix. Nah, just kidding.

-- 
*------v--------- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 --------v------*
|      <http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual>      |
|   debian-imac (potato): <http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net>   |
|            Chris Tillman        tillman@azstarnet.com          |
|                   May the Source be with you                   |
*----------------------------------------------------------------*


----- End forwarded message -----



Information forwarded to doc-linux@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#128852; Package doc-linux-text. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and filed, but not forwarded. Copy sent to doc-linux@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #36 received at 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org
Subject: [cjwatson@debian.org: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers]
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:17:49 -0500
Forwarding some extra stuff from the list discussion to this bug.

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]

----- Forwarded message from Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> -----

Resent-Date: 15 Jan 2002 19:03:46 -0000
Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
X-Envelope-Sender: cjwatson@master.debian.org
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:03:44 -0600
From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: debian-doc@lists.debian.org, debian-boot@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Mail-Followup-To: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>,
	debian-doc@lists.debian.org, debian-boot@lists.debian.org
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
In-Reply-To: <20020114042301.GA17129@Obsession>; from tillman@azstarnet.com on Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 09:23:01PM -0700
Resent-Message-ID: <SbwawC.A.PY.S0HR8@murphy>
Resent-From: debian-doc@lists.debian.org
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Delivered-To: joy-list-archive@debian.org

On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 09:23:01PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 01:19:38AM +0000, Colin Watson wrote:
> > Josip suggested the install-doc package from boot-floppies, which sounds
> > like an ideal location to me. Perhaps it would be a good idea to bump
> > install-doc to standard (possibly with the PDF files split out), add it
> > to debootstrap, and add a simple file or two of the utter-newbie "oh my
> > God, how do I use this thing?" documentation that Chris suggested.
> > install-doc would also be useful on standard installations due to things
> > like the dselect tutorial.
> > 
> > Comments?
> 
> :-) I love that description. But really, it's accurate when any
> non-technical person is first faced with a *nix console. And some
> technical people too!

Well, quite :)

So, if I reassigned this to install-doc, are the suggestions above
likely to be well-received?

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]


----- End forwarded message -----



Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, doc-linux@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#128852; Package doc-linux-text. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to doc-linux@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #41 received at 128852@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>, 128852@bugs.debian.org
Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-doc@lists.debian.org, control@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:15:41 +0100
retitle 128852 Ultra-newbie introductory documentation needed somewhere
reassign 128852 general
thanks

I honestly have no idea where this documentation ought to go. doc-linux
is not appropriate, as those packages contain documentation from the
LDP. The doc-debian maintainer isn't convinced that it ought to go there
either. install-doc is, as pointed out, rather large, and furthermore
Priority: extra; the primary requirement is that whatever package
contains this introductory documentation ought to be installed as
standard.

It sounds like a valid bug about the system in general that there should
be a short bootstrapping document somewhere obvious; thus, at a loss for
anything else to do with it, I'm going to reassign this bug to 'general'
and ask for further discussion.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]



Changed Bug title. Request was from Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Bug reassigned from package `doc-linux-text' to `general'. Request was from Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to general@packages.qa.debian.org:
Bug#128852; Package general. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>:
Extra info received and filed, but not forwarded. Copy sent to general@packages.qa.debian.org. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #50 received at 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
To: 128852-quiet@bugs.debian.org
Subject: [tillman@azstarnet.com: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers]
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 09:18:15 -0500
Forwarding some extra stuff from the list discussion to this bug.

-- 
Colin Watson                                  [cjwatson@flatline.org.uk]

----- Forwarded message from Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com> -----

Resent-Date: 16 Jan 2002 03:18:38 -0000
Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
X-Envelope-Sender: tillman@azstarnet.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:19:07 -0700
From: Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>
To: debian-doc@lists.debian.org, debian-boot@lists.debian.org
Cc: Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
Subject: Re: Bug#128852: doc-linux-text: Suggested addition to package: rank newbie pointers
Mail-Followup-To: debian-doc@lists.debian.org, debian-boot@lists.debian.org,
	Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org>
In-Reply-To: <20020115130344.A22940@debian.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.24i
Resent-Message-ID: <a7RLdB.A.OoF.OEPR8@murphy>
Resent-From: debian-doc@lists.debian.org
X-Mailing-List: <debian-doc@lists.debian.org> archive/latest/2742
X-Loop: debian-doc@lists.debian.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: debian-doc-request@lists.debian.org
Delivered-To: joy-list-archive@debian.org

On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:03:44PM -0600, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 09:23:01PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 01:19:38AM +0000, Colin Watson wrote:
> > > Josip suggested the install-doc package from boot-floppies, which sounds
> > > like an ideal location to me. Perhaps it would be a good idea to bump
> > > install-doc to standard (possibly with the PDF files split out), add it
> > > to debootstrap, and add a simple file or two of the utter-newbie "oh my
> > > God, how do I use this thing?" documentation that Chris suggested.
> > > install-doc would also be useful on standard installations due to things
> > > like the dselect tutorial.
> > > 
> > > Comments?
> > 
> > :-) I love that description. But really, it's accurate when any
> > non-technical person is first faced with a *nix console. And some
> > technical people too!
> 
> Well, quite :)
> 
> So, if I reassigned this to install-doc, are the suggestions above
> likely to be well-received?

Once only objection would be that it's not really installation
related.

Another issue might be that lots of people wouldn't want all the
install documentation taking up room on their disk and bandwidth on
their installation (it's 7.5M unpacked, html and text only). This
document should remain tiny and unobtrusive, but with install-doc it
would be part of a really big multi-language package. This thing
should just be on every installation, taking up very little space but
there without needing to be installed for the newbie that needs it.

So maybe base-config would be the best one to install it, as someone
originally suggested.

Perhaps this is why there isn't one already; nobody can decide who it
belongs to.

-- 
*------v--------- Installing Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 --------v------*
|      <http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/installmanual>      |
|   debian-imac (potato): <http://debian-imac.sourceforge.net>   |
|            Chris Tillman        tillman@azstarnet.com          |
|                   May the Source be with you                   |
*----------------------------------------------------------------*


----- End forwarded message -----



Tags removed: patch Request was from Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> to control@bugs.debian.org. (Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:24:05 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Reply sent to Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Notification sent to Chris Tillman <tillman@azstarnet.com>:
Bug acknowledged by developer. Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #57 received at 128852-done@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>
To: 128852-done@bugs.debian.org, Vanessa Gutiérrez <vanecgs@debian.org.ve>
Subject: there is newbiedoc now
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:37:34 +0200
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Hi Vanessa,

this (128852) is a old wishlist bugreport about having newbie friendly 
documentation in Debian. As you are the newbiedoc maintainer I thought you 
might want to read it, as there might be some suggestion relevant to it :-)

Closing the bug as newbiedoc is in stable, testing and unstable.


regards,
	Holger
[Message part 2 (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <owner@bugs.debian.org> to internal_control@bugs.debian.org. (Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:30:09 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

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